workers who get called great but you disagree

[Youth N Asia 0]

Dude can have good matches. But I went to the 2004 (?) TPI show where he was wrestling Quackenbush and the people in front of me were acting like it was Savage/Steamboat...it was just painfully slow chain wrestling

[DangerousDamon 0]

Dude can have good matches. But I went to the 2004 (?) TPI show where he was wrestling Quackenbush and the people in front of me were acting like it was Savage/Steamboat...it was just painfully slow chain wrestling

I absolutely hate his Knockout Gimmick that some ROH fans are jizzing over.

[Silence 0]

I absolutely hate his Knockout Gimmick that some ROH fans are jizzing over.

 

Whoop-dee doo, he knocked out "Sugarfoot" Alex Payne!

 

I can't get over how weak Hero's elbow strikes look.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Dude can have good matches. But I went to the 2004 (?) TPI show where he was wrestling Quackenbush and the people in front of me were acting like it was Savage/Steamboat...it was just painfully slow chain wrestling

I absolutely hate his Knockout Gimmick that some ROH fans are jizzing over.

 

Well that's ROH/Gabe's fault. Hero's heel shtick was entertaining and getting over, but you can't get over in ROH if you don't hit people REALLY FUCKING HARD~!

 

Joe's gimmick was hitting people a bunch. Morishima's gimmick was hitting people a bunch. KENTA's gimmick was kicking people a bunch. Danielson's gimmick was MMA elbowing people a bunch. Nigel's gimmick was Lariating people a bunch. Hero was getting over by having a personality. Can't have that! One fluke knockout and now his gimmick is elbowing people a bunch!

 

But I went to the 2004 (?) TPI show where he was wrestling Quackenbush and the people in front of me were acting like it was Savage/Steamboat...it was just painfully slow chain wrestling

 

To be fair, that match is notoriously devisive. Plenty agree with what you're saying, but I think the point was they were supposed to be doing that. The match was set-up as trainer versus trainer.

 

I'm not a big fan of the match, but it's better when you take it in context of the feud and Hero's heel turn on Quack that resulted from it. Of course that happened in a different promotion, but still.

 

Plus a lot of IWA fans are kind dumb. Some of them probably think Ian Rotten versus Mickie Knuckles is equivalent to Savage/Steamboat.

[The Truthiness 0]

Kurt Angle and Chris Jericho, would be my picks.

 

HBK use to be high on my list, in the "good not great" category also, but I learned to appreciate the guy after Mania. He's like the Nas of wrestling. He haD some bad years, but his body of work is too good, to be considered anything less then great. I still think he's overrated, and find him goofy at times when he wrestles, but he's cool.

 

 

[DangerousDamon 0]

Dude can have good matches. But I went to the 2004 (?) TPI show where he was wrestling Quackenbush and the people in front of me were acting like it was Savage/Steamboat...it was just painfully slow chain wrestling

I absolutely hate his Knockout Gimmick that some ROH fans are jizzing over.

 

Well that's ROH/Gabe's fault. Hero's heel shtick was entertaining and getting over, but you can't get over in ROH if you don't hit people REALLY FUCKING HARD~!

 

Joe's gimmick was hitting people a bunch. Morishima's gimmick was hitting people a bunch. KENTA's gimmick was kicking people a bunch. Danielson's gimmick was MMA elbowing people a bunch. Nigel's gimmick was Lariating people a bunch. Hero was getting over by having a personality. Can't have that! One fluke knockout and now his gimmick is elbowing people a bunch!

 

 

 

I was thinking the gimmick was going to lead up to the revealation that he was loading his boots and elbow pads.

[zappafrank 0]

Val Venis. I've always found him to be incredibly stiff (no pun intended), and not in the Japanese strong style way.

[haws bah gawd 0]

Still to this day don't see what people see in Bret Hart. Guy was an decent wrestler no doubt, but too vanilla for me. Of course, I always had an issue with a face wrestler who was too "goody-goody". Don't know why.

 

Still don't see the appeal of Samoa Joe either.

[Maztinho 0]

I think Samoa Joe is kinda going to turn into this generations Vader. He's known for working stiff, and doing moves that "big men" aren't supposed to be able to do. I think alot of Joe's aura stems back to the Kobashi match which was stellar and he's milking that.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

Sean Waltman. People turned against him in 2000, but I've hated him since 1993. There was no way that this guy should have beating talents like Razor Ramon and Ted Dibiase.

[bob_barron 0]

Still to this day don't see what people see in Bret Hart. Guy was an decent wrestler no doubt, but too vanilla for me. Of course, I always had an issue with a face wrestler who was too "goody-goody". Don't know why.

 

Still don't see the appeal of Samoa Joe either.

 

Bret wasn't too goody-goody. I always thought he was really arrogant and cocky, and it seems like during face-face matchups, he came off as the heel.

 

And the victories 1-2-3 Kid had over Ramon and Dibiase were total flukes.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

And the victories 1-2-3 Kid had over Ramon and Dibiase were total flukes.

 

I won't disagree with that. Let's just say I was quite happy when IRS destroyed him at Summerslam.

[Mos_Def 0]

Flair is one for me, for obvious reasons.

 

One guy I've always thought was criminally overrated was Ted Dibiase. He was skilled, but how many great matches did he ever have? All of his great matches are supposedly in some hole in the wall in Louisiana --- in front of two hundred people (i.e, they never existed). People have consistently called him an all time great. Dont see it. He was boring to me.

 

Curt Henning. Again, for somebody that is considered great, his body of work and resume is lacking. Although, he was hurt for the bulk of his prime.

 

Shane Douglas. mechanical and stiff. Was fairly light, but he worked like he was 50 pounds heavier. A lot of slow, plodding matches.

 

 

[Timmy8271 0]

Watch some of Henning's AWA work and early WWF matches, He was great till he got injured back in 90 or so.

 

And about Dibiase, He was probably the best wrestler in the world in the mid 80's. Way better than Flair was at the time. Watch some of his Mid south matches vs Dick Murdoch, Flair, Magnum TA and his great feud with Hacksaw Duggan.

 

My pick is Bryan Danielson. He's a good wrestler but in no way is he the best Wrestler in the world.

[Silence 0]

Shane Douglas. mechanical and stiff. Was fairly light, but he worked like he was 50 pounds heavier. A lot of slow, plodding matches.

 

I didn't know many people praised his matches.

[Diamonddust 0]

Shane Douglas. mechanical and stiff. Was fairly light, but he worked like he was 50 pounds heavier. A lot of slow, plodding matches.

 

I didn't know many people praised his matches.

 

Agreed. I thought most people considered Douglas overrated.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I don't think Douglas was overrated simply because few called him great to begin with. I put Douglas in a similar class to Jeff Jarrett, in that he's solid in all areas but not great in any one thing; he's your typical utility guy.

 

Ted DiBiase was a great in-ring worker because he was very good at everything he did, never looked bad, and could have good to great matches with a variety of workers. He could also get some good matches out of some real stiffs. As has been said, his best body of work is in Mid-South, but you shouldn't forget his work in Georgia, where he was able to show he could excel at the non-wrestling side of things. To dismiss his work because it didn't happen in front of large crowds, which is inaccurate in itself, is most definitely being ignorant.

 

I'd describe Bryan Danielson, from an in-ring perspective, as like a Ted DiBiase, in that he's good at everything, doesn't look bad in the ring, has had good to great matches in a variety of styles, and can get good matches out of limited workers.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

The thing that makes me enjoy DiBiase/Hennig matches is that they have an ability to look imposing and threatening when they need to be but also stooge and bump around helplessly when the situation permits.

[Guest]

Douglas was a good tag wrestler in WCW, but never great. A large part of that is due to opponents and being teamed with Steamboat, but still, he was good.

 

The ones who have been mentioned that I think aren't that good are guys I never heard called great in the first place. Waltman was very good on his day, but I haven't heard many call him great.

[blue2 0]

Danielson, in the ring is awesome, but he lacks a look and personality. Bret, I like but sometimes he has no facials. Flair was great, but was no technician. I guess my pick is..............

 

Misawa

[The Truthiness 0]

Shane Douglas was painfully sloppy at times, I don't see how anybody could compare him to Jarrett.

 

I'd like to throw Claudio Castagnoli in there also, never seen anything special about the guy.

 

 

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I'd put Jake Roberts up there. Everyone on the 'net loves the guy's classic work, but I think a lot more of it was due to his in-ring personality, which was way ahead of its time. Most of his matches bored me to death though. I'm sure he had some classics in Georgia or Mid-South or something, but I've never seen any of it. Most of his stuff in WWF and WCW was junk, though.

[Scroby 0]

My pick is Bryan Danielson. He's a good wrestler but in no way is he the best Wrestler in the world.

I agree with you. Danielson is very good in the ring but to hear fans yell and chant "best in the world!" is just overkill.

 

I honestly think the ROH fans have drank more kool-aid than Heyman ever produced running ECW.

[bob_barron 0]

My pick is Bryan Danielson. He's a good wrestler but in no way is he the best Wrestler in the world.

I agree with you. Danielson is very good in the ring but to hear fans yell and chant "best in the world!" is just overkill.

 

I honestly think the ROH fans have drank more kool-aid than Heyman ever produced running ECW.

 

That's Danielson's gimmick.

[Scroby 0]

My pick is Bryan Danielson. He's a good wrestler but in no way is he the best Wrestler in the world.

I agree with you. Danielson is very good in the ring but to hear fans yell and chant "best in the world!" is just overkill.

 

I honestly think the ROH fans have drank more kool-aid than Heyman ever produced running ECW.

 

That's Danielson's gimmick.

I know it is, but when I saw him wrestle at the Cow Palace the people there yelled it or chanted every chance they got. That show really soured me on ROH though, so maybe that's part of my problem as well.

[The Flamboyance 0]

They were just fans of the product that were into the show and were buying into his gimmick. I doubt most of them they think he's truly the best in the world. I've been guilty of chanting that numerous times and no, I don't think I drink the "koolaid" (I don't even watch ROH anymore) As for his personality, I think there are times, when Danielson really knows how to show it and stand out from the rest, but that look will always make him look bland to a lot of people.

 

I tried to get into Shane Douglas for years, but it's been a difficult task. I watched a clip of his a couple of days ago and it was pretty funny how commentators would try to sell his belly to belly as some devastating finisher.

[King Cucaracha 0]

I'd like to throw Claudio Castagnoli in there also, never seen anything special about the guy.

 

HEY!

 

 

ROH fans do tend to chant a bunch of stuff that isn't worth chanting, just for the sake of chanting, that much is true. Not just in regards to Danielson.

 

To me, Danielson is great because he's creative and adapts as well as anyone. He's able to work a number of styles and work them well, heel and face. I've seen him have a match which consisted of an 8-9 minute headlock and a roll-up and he made it work. I've seen him have a 5 minute World Title match end on a flash pin and make it work. I've seen him work comedy (the knock that he doesn't have a personality is misguided) and I've seen him work as a cowardly old school heel and do it as well as he does 'straight' wrestling. People peg him as a boring technical wrestler but he can do so much more than that.

 

I don't know as I'd call him the actual best in the world, but I'd probably put him somewhere up there.

 

 

I think I said it in another thread about DiBiase, he didn't have many standout matches in the WWF but the problem was he never really got the chance to have those matches. So many of his matches ended in non-finishes, COs or DQs. He didn't have many classic matches, but he played the role he was given brilliantly, so you have to be able to seperate 'great wrestler' from 'wrestler who has great matches', to a certain extent. I'd put Jake Roberts in the same role. Excellent worker, few really great matches.

[Diamonddust 0]

They were just fans of the product that were into the show and were buying into his gimmick. I doubt most of them they think he's truly the best in the world. I've been guilty of chanting that numerous times and no, I don't think I drink the "koolaid" (I don't even watch ROH anymore) As for his personality, I think there are times, when Danielson really knows how to show it and stand out from the rest, but that look will always make him look bland to a lot of people.

 

I tried to get into Shane Douglas for years, but it's been a difficult task. I watched a clip of his a couple of days ago and it was pretty funny how commentators would try to sell his belly to belly as some devastating finisher.

 

 

Back in Magnum T.A.'s day, the belly to belly was sold as a devastating instant match-ending finisher. Not so much in Douglas' day though.

[The Buzz 0]

Its funny I always thought Shane Douglas did a great job at making the belly to belly look like a good finisher. Thats one of the few things he still did well even in his TNA days imo. Danielson has personality and to an extent he has that ability to carry himself like a star that few have. I can't say that he's never been bland, but he's got the tools when he wants to use them. I will say this out of all the supposed workhorses of the last 20 years, Danielson is one of the few I won't skip over his match if I'm watching a dvd with him on it.

 

As far as workers who I thought were labled great that didn't come off as great....Maybe like a Mike Quackenbush, Michael Modest type guy. They both always came off as being solid in a few areas, but were lacking the overall package.

[Youth N Asia 0]

In 97 a belly to belly done well could still pass, the spot monkeys of today have ruined that though. What good is a belly to belly suplex. I just saw The Amazing Red get dropped on his skull 23 times and he kicked out