The Savage / WWE bad blood

[Enigma 0]

WWE Hall of Famer Sgt. Slaughter recently attended a media presentation at THQ on behalf of the WWE for THQ's upcoming wrestling game, Legends of WrestleMania.

 

Jeff Gerstmann of gaming website GiantBomb.Com has posted an 8-minute interview with the former WWF Champion.

 

Things got very interesting near the end of the interview. Gerstmann noted that he allowed the visitors of his site to ask a question and said the overwhelming majority asked why "Macho Man" Randy Savage was not in the video game.

 

Instead of dodging the question, Slaughter was as honest as he could be and finally gave some real information as to the mysterious issue between Savage and Vince McMahon. He even ended up making a plea to Savage to try and fix the problems.

 

Here is the direct dialogue of the interview:

 

JEFF GERSTMANN: "We put out a question to the people that look at our site and said what are some questions you'd like us to ask while we're at THQ. The #1 question has been about "Macho Man" Randy Savage. It seems like no one can really answer why he's not kind of involved with things currently. I was just wondering if you had anything to say about any of that stuff."

 

SGT. SLAUGHTER: "Such a talented performer and a great mind for the business. I don't even know where he's at. I'd like to know the answer to that question myself. I guess he just did the unthinkable by double-crossing Vince McMahon. I mean a lot of guys went different directions and things like that but Randy really double-crossed him. I don't think Vince will ever forgive him for that. Vince is a smart man. He's a business man. He's brought a lot of guys back that tried to put him out of business. But somehow, Randy got under his skin and I don't know if he'll ever be back. But I would love to see him get into the Hall of Fame. I think he deserves it as far as a performer. And we sure could use him, his mind, and everything for the business. Randy, if you're listening, I'd give a call to Vince McMahon. I don't know what you're doing these days, but I'd give him a call and see if you can't bury that hatchet. Let us enjoy your mind and your thoughts of the business."

[Twisted Intestine 0]

BREAKING NEWS: Macho Man got under Vince's skin!

[Boxer 0]

WWE Hall of Famer Sgt. Slaughter recently attended a media presentation at THQ on behalf of the WWE for THQ's upcoming wrestling game, Legends of WrestleMania.

 

Jeff Gerstmann of gaming website GiantBomb.Com has posted an 8-minute interview with the former WWF Champion.

 

Things got very interesting near the end of the interview. Gerstmann noted that he allowed the visitors of his site to ask a question and said the overwhelming majority asked why "Macho Man" Randy Savage was not in the video game.

 

Instead of dodging the question, Slaughter was as honest as he could be and finally gave some real information as to the mysterious issue between Savage and Vince McMahon. He even ended up making a plea to Savage to try and fix the problems.

 

Here is the direct dialogue of the interview:

 

JEFF GERSTMANN: "We put out a question to the people that look at our site and said what are some questions you'd like us to ask while we're at THQ. The #1 question has been about "Macho Man" Randy Savage. It seems like no one can really answer why he's not kind of involved with things currently. I was just wondering if you had anything to say about any of that stuff."

 

SGT. SLAUGHTER: "Such a talented performer and a great mind for the business. I don't even know where he's at. I'd like to know the answer to that question myself. I guess he just did the unthinkable by double-crossing Vince McMahon. I mean a lot of guys went different directions and things like that but Randy really double-crossed him. I don't think Vince will ever forgive him for that. Vince is a smart man. He's a business man. He's brought a lot of guys back that tried to put him out of business. But somehow, Randy got under his skin and I don't know if he'll ever be back. But I would love to see him get into the Hall of Fame. I think he deserves it as far as a performer. And we sure could use him, his mind, and everything for the business. Randy, if you're listening, I'd give a call to Vince McMahon. I don't know what you're doing these days, but I'd give him a call and see if you can't bury that hatchet. Let us enjoy your mind and your thoughts of the business."

 

This still doesn't make sense.

 

How do you double cross a guy and get this ON LIVE TV:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/search/macho+ma...-man_shortfilms

 

Unless he double crossed him AFTER that promo aired. Maybe Macho promised NOT to go to WCW in return for a proper farewell, and then he lied?

 

 

 

[Enigma 0]

The entire reason Savage left in 1994 was because he wanted to be a full-time wrestler. His contract was up and Vince thought his days doing that were over. He wanted him to be a commentator that only ocassionally wrestled in special circumstances (such as the Crush angle), but Savage wanted to be full-time because this was money-fueled. Vince was going to pay him like he was a commentator, not a wrestler. Many feel like Vince wanted to keep Savage's salary the same because of the respect he had for him, but WWF business was in the shitter in 1994 and he needed to cut some corners. Vince knew Savage was going to WCW when he said that on Raw. In fact, I do believe they announced Savage was coming to WCW on the next episode of WCW Saturday Night after that Raw. That's how quick it was.

 

It had to have happened way later because Savage was really close to coming back to the WWF in 1996 after his WCW deal expired. The mystery partner spot on Yokozuna's team at Survivor Series '96 was designed for him, but ended up being Jimmy Snuka when they couldn't get Savage back. They still tried to bring him back, but he ended up re-signing with WCW in January 1997.

 

I do remember they had an interview with Randy Savage in the very first edition of Smackdown magazine that came out some point in 2003, although it was mostly about Elizabeth's death.

 

I don't think the Stephanie story is true at all, because considering how little Vince thinks of him, I would think he would have done everything he could have to have Savage prosecuted for it. Not to mention, the timeline of that story is all wrong. And it's clear all these bad feelings Vince has for him haven't been there for a long time, considering the Smackdown magazine interview. Up until then, he had just been asking for too much money to do stuff. Maybe Vince got pissed at him for going to TNA? Who knows.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

I think anyone with a lick of common sense knows the Savage/Stephanie rumors are bullshit. I mean, all these years go by, and not one veteran wrestler or former WWF employee mentions it in a shoot interview or something? Come on.

 

My guess is Vince really soured on Savage around '96 when he was supposed to come back, like someone else mentioned.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Meltzer talks about the Savage rumors, and what people who have worked there say.

 

[cabbageboy 0]

I listened to that Observer show as well and was intrigued by what they said. There has to be something really, really bad Savage did to be blackballed in such a way. Beyond just going to WCW and having a falling out with Vince in late 1994. Hogan actually testified against Vince in court and he eventually came back, so it would be interesting to find out the actual story behind it.

[theone 0]

I've heard the Randy/Steph bs was true from workers AND bookers, but a lot of the time long standing rumors are perceived as truth, especially in this industry... so who knows... one of wrestling's many mysteries.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I've heard the Randy/Steph bs was true from workers AND bookers, but a lot of the time long standing rumors are perceived as truth, especially in this industry... so who knows... one of wrestling's many mysteries.

It's reached a point where it doesn't matter if it's true or not; so many people think it is that it may as well be. In any event, the important thing isn't what did or did happen but rather what Vince thinks happened.

[theone 0]

I've heard the Randy/Steph bs was true from workers AND bookers, but a lot of the time long standing rumors are perceived as truth, especially in this industry... so who knows... one of wrestling's many mysteries.

It's reached a point where it doesn't matter if it's true or not; so many people think it is that it may as well be. In any event, the important thing isn't what did or did happen but rather what Vince thinks happened.

 

Would I hit it?

 

 

OOOOOH YEAH

[Just call me Dan 0]

What, then would explain Savage being at the Royal Rumble (per that cell phone pic of him driving to the arena), to supposedly hash out the upcoming DVD? Who met with him if he did something so horrible?

[geniusMoment 0]

About Savage, Lanny Poffo (Randy's brother) did a interview with Wade Keller. And Keller asked him why he thinks Savage has never went back to WWE, never been inducted into the hall, and really never mentioned. Lanny said he's heard the rumors, he's seen what's on the net, and he didn't deny it. He said he doesn't have the guts to ask Randy about it. Now, if he even had any doubt over whether that happened don't you think he would deny anything with steph ever happened. Lanny and Randy get along, it's not like theres any trouble. So if your own brother wonders whether it happened I've got to believe something occured, it may have been something as simple as flirting or an off color remark that she later told vince about, but i think it happened.

[Chazz 0]

Re: Steph-Savage rumors; How old was Steph supposed to have been when this allegedly occured?

[Thanks for the Fish 0]

Re: Steph-Savage rumors; How old was Steph supposed to have been when this allegedly occured?

 

14 years old I believe.

[CookieMueller 0]

Re: Steph-Savage rumors; How old was Steph supposed to have been when this allegedly occured?

 

14 is the age I always see. Which would have been 90-91, which makes absolutely no sense timing wise unless Vince found out about it years later.

[Mike wanna be 0]

About Savage, Lanny Poffo (Randy's brother) did a interview with Wade Keller. And Keller asked him why he thinks Savage has never went back to WWE, never been inducted into the hall, and really never mentioned. Lanny said he's heard the rumors, he's seen what's on the net, and he didn't deny it. He said he doesn't have the guts to ask Randy about it. Now, if he even had any doubt over whether that happened don't you think he would deny anything with steph ever happened. Lanny and Randy get along, it's not like theres any trouble. So if your own brother wonders whether it happened I've got to believe something occured, it may have been something as simple as flirting or an off color remark that she later told vince about, but i think it happened.

If you're on good terms with someone, a good way to make those turn into non-speaking terms is to ask questions like "Hey did you rail a minor back in '90? Vince's kid, perhaps? Were you what they call the 'pre-Game show'?"

[theone 0]

About Savage, Lanny Poffo (Randy's brother) did a interview with Wade Keller. And Keller asked him why he thinks Savage has never went back to WWE, never been inducted into the hall, and really never mentioned. Lanny said he's heard the rumors, he's seen what's on the net, and he didn't deny it. He said he doesn't have the guts to ask Randy about it. Now, if he even had any doubt over whether that happened don't you think he would deny anything with steph ever happened. Lanny and Randy get along, it's not like theres any trouble. So if your own brother wonders whether it happened I've got to believe something occured, it may have been something as simple as flirting or an off color remark that she later told vince about, but i think it happened.

If you're on good terms with someone, a good way to make those turn into non-speaking terms is to ask questions like "Hey did you rail a minor back in '90? Vince's kid, perhaps? Were you what they call the 'pre-Game show'?"

If someone were questioning me about my brother possibly committing statutory rape you better believe if I had a single doubt on the subject I would deny or debunk it. The fact that didn't happen speaks volumes about the situation.

[Mike wanna be 0]

About Savage, Lanny Poffo (Randy's brother) did a interview with Wade Keller. And Keller asked him why he thinks Savage has never went back to WWE, never been inducted into the hall, and really never mentioned. Lanny said he's heard the rumors, he's seen what's on the net, and he didn't deny it. He said he doesn't have the guts to ask Randy about it. Now, if he even had any doubt over whether that happened don't you think he would deny anything with steph ever happened. Lanny and Randy get along, it's not like theres any trouble. So if your own brother wonders whether it happened I've got to believe something occured, it may have been something as simple as flirting or an off color remark that she later told vince about, but i think it happened.

If you're on good terms with someone, a good way to make those turn into non-speaking terms is to ask questions like "Hey did you rail a minor back in '90? Vince's kid, perhaps? Were you what they call the 'pre-Game show'?"

If someone were questioning me about my brother possibly committing statutory rape you better believe if I had a single doubt on the subject I would deny or debunk it. The fact that didn't happen speaks volumes about the situation.

If you honest to god had absolutely no idea whether any shred of it was remotely true, you wouldn't have that "single doubt" that would cause you to instantly deny it, and you'd be in the same situation as Lanny.

 

Would you deny it and go through the gamut of "Are you sure? How sure are you?" inquiries that you have to answer "I don't know" or "I have no idea" to? Don't you end up looking like a jackass who's covering for his statutory raping brother when you make claims like that with no evidence? Sure there's no evidence to the contrary of your statement, but when you say stuff like "He's not guilty" the burden of proof is on your shoulders, not theirs.

 

Obviously he'd like to outright deny it. Maybe Lanny figured it'd be a more prudent maneuver to just sidestep the question as much as possible (which I believe he did with his "I know what you're referring to, and I've never asked Randy about it" response).

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Re: Steph-Savage rumors; How old was Steph supposed to have been when this allegedly occured?

 

14 is the age I always see. Which would have been 90-91, which makes absolutely no sense timing wise unless Vince found out about it years later.

I've never fully bought into the Stephanie story, but if it were to be true, I assumed that the story probably came out when she started working for the company in 2000. Or, if you want to take the conspiracy a little further, perhaps Vince always knew but HHH only found in recent years and Vince and company now feign outrage over respect for their marriage. It's not exactly concrete, but the time lines can work if you think about it a little.

[Swindle 0]

Honestly, I do believe the stories. What is the one thing that could stop Vince from doing business with someone when he has put aside badblood in every other case? It is logical, the timeline fits too.

 

JMO.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

I don't buy it. If going by accepted timeline, that would mean that Vince gave Savage the WWF title AFTER it happened. I doubt something like that would happen without Vince knowing and I highly doubt that Vince would give Savage the belt after that or try hard to resign him in 1996. Plus if it came out in 2000 or 2001 or whenever, how does one explain the Smackdown interview? Or the WWF History desire video that prominently featured Savage?

 

I don't know what the answer is but I doubt Steph is it.

[geniusMoment 0]

Here is the video where Macho Man says he's gonna take Steph from Hunter. He really starts in on Steph and Hunter at around 4 minutes in. Could Steph or Vince have heard this and really gotten offended?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzFC0RcefS8

[muda345 0]

Shit Savage should be pissed at Vince for putting him into mid card fueds the whole first 9 months of 1990. How do you go from Wrestling Hogan in the main event of WM5 to jobbing out to Rhodes in less then a year

[Beto Chavez 0]

I found this on another board:

 

The Slim Jim situation has been brought up in other threads and has been laughed off on this board, but it's the truth of why Randy and Vince don't speak to this day.

 

Remember that the WWE, in 1994, was not a public company. Vince was spending his own money and relying on ad revenue from advertisers to keep his TV shows on the air.

 

Also remember that this was around the same time as the steroid trial. Vince got off, but at a price. The bad PR surrounding the company, which was family-friendly back then, was devastating. WWE was all about good guys vs. bad guys, and it was a "safe" product that the whole family could enjoy.

 

Don't forget that 1994 in general was a bad year for wrestling. The WWE was suffering from low buyrates and poor attendance at house shows (Bret vs. Owen in half-empty arenas, the same arenas that were sold out for Hogan vs. Flair just 2 years prior). Wrestlers' morale was down and pay cuts were all over the place, which is why Bobby Hennan, Gene Okerlund, and Jimmy Hart had all left the company earlier that year.

 

Then the steroid trial happened and the newspapers were full of stories about steriod and coke-addled wrestlers who were coaxed into abusing these substances by McMahon, since their jobs depended on it.

 

True or not, it scared the hell out of the WWE's many advertisers, who started pulling out left and right. Remember all the commercials on WWE TV back then? All kid-friendly products (candy bars, toys, video games, breakfast cereal, those little Nerf footballs with the spikes at the end).

 

One of the few remaining advertisers was Slim Jim, who had a huge celebrity sponsorship deal with Randy. Here was a company that manufactured this piece of crap beef jerky whose sales went through the roof thanks to advertising their product on WWE TV (had any of you heard of Slim Jim before the early 90s?).

 

Late in '94, Randy and Vince were having contract disputes. Randy still felt he had some gas left in the tank, and still wanted to wrestle (apart from his position as Slim Jim spokesman, he was relegated to ringside commentator and conducted interviews with talent, and rarely wrestled).

 

Vince disagreed, mainly because the WWE's big marketing gimmick at the time was "New Generation", which was centered on then-young talent like Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, with the focal point being then-WWE Champion Bret Hart.

 

But the "New Generation" gimmick was ludicrious. Not only was Bret only 4 1/2 years younger than Randy, but his primary feud at the time was with 1970s hold-over Bob Backlund, who originally left the company in 1984, 1 YEAR before Randy ever showed up!

 

Randy saw through this and wanted out. Around the same time, Randy's then-friend Hulk Hogan, who had just defected to WCW for a big-money contract just 8 months prior, came calling with promises of guaranteed money down South.

 

Randy came back to Vince expecting a counter-offer, knowing that Vince is most vulnerable and competative when he's backed into a corner.

 

Much to Randy's surprise, Vince threw up his hands, wished Randy luck, and allowed him to leave the company he had loyally served for close to 10 years.

 

But the writing was on the wall.

 

Vince doesn't keep anybody he doesn't see value in, so obviously he didn't feel that a Randy Savage-less WWE would hurt. If anything, Vince figured, it would save him money that he desperately needed at the time anyway.

 

As for Slim Jim, Vince naturally assumed that Slim Jim would stay on as an advertiser for his TV programming, since the business relationship was so mutually beneficial. Through this, Vince could keep the ad revenue dollars flowing into the company, and Slim Jim could continue to enjoy their brisk sales as a result of the exposure Vince allowed them.

 

As for a celebrity spokesman, Vince also assumed that Slim jim would ditch Randy as their celebrity client and snatch up any one of the other wrestlers in the company (Nash, Hall, etc.) to be the new "Snap into it!" pitchman for Slim Jim's then-ubiquitous commercials.

 

Wrong. Before Vince could blink, Randy had already met with the top Slim Jim execs and convinced them to not only pull their ads off of WWE programming, but to follow Randy down South to WCW. Down to Ted Turner's self-owned conglomerate; a billionaire who certainly didn't need the ad revenue.

 

So not only had Randy scored a major business coup against Vince, and not only did he end up costing Vince millions of dollars worth of ad revenue that McMahon desperately needed at the time, but he managed to keep his celebrity spokesman job while working for the dreaded competition (Vince's obsession with Ted Turner was full-blown at the time).

 

Vince felt betrayed by the fact that what was intended to be a cost-saving measure (putting an aging 1980s left-over out to pasture) ended up costing him millions of dollars. Worst of all, Vince deeply resented the fact that he was out-smarted by one of the boys, which has happened almost never in his 20+ years of running the company.

 

To top it all of, Randy just didn't care. He went to WCW, and while his 1997 matches didn't hold a candle to his 1987 ones, he made millions in guaranteed money working a relaxed schedule and surrounded by other WWE castaways (Hogan, Piper, Hall, Nash, Luger, Sean Waltman).

 

Randy was also at the forefront of the NWO Revolution, when WCW was beating WWE for 2 years straight in the ratings, and Vince came close many times to going out of business.

 

As far as Randy was concerned, it was business, and he's living off the fruits of his labor to this day. But Vince took it personally. And there's nothing Vince hates more than ex-WWE guys who don't need him.

 

Think about it. How many former WWE stars from the 80s and 90s ended up drug-addled, broke, and useless in the real world? How many have been sitting by the phone for the last 10 years waiting breathlessly for Vince to call and offer up $500 to come back and get humiliated on Raw?

 

How many have spent the last 10 years calling the office every week begging and pleading for a shot, ANY shot, "Just please, Vince! Put me back on TV!"

 

It's more common than you think. Vince LOVES playing God and playing Godfather to all the used-up talent he burned through from the time Reagan was President. He loves being their sole source of income (while they push carts at Walmart in the real world), which is why he's so quick to trademark their rings names and sue or issue ceast-and-desist orders to keep them from making a living outside the WWE.

 

It's why he's so quick to sign them to non-compete deals should they ever get that one last "shot", be it on Raw or in the Hall of Fame, thereby preventing them from capitalizing on the momentum of being on national TV.

 

Vince's goal is to control everything about the lives of his current and former talent, even the ones he could care less about. Lord knows what strings come attached with the free rehab the company offers.

 

But NONE of this applies to Randy. Not one iota. Unlike 90% of his 80s-90s wrestling peers, Randy is happy, massively wealthy, and enjoying life. He doesn't need Vince or his money.

 

Vince, meanwhile, is still playing his little games 14 years later, showing what a spoiled little baby he is. Look no further than the Legends of Wrestlemania game that's coming out for PS3 next year. Randy is NOT included in the game, and this is a guy who not only performed at 9 of them (II through X), but main-evented 2 of them (IV and V), and had the greatest Wrestlemania match of all time (at III).

 

But here we are, 14 years later. No Randy Savage action figures, no Hall of Fame induction, and no Legends of Wrestlemania video game. Vince is seemingly still intent on getting his point across by blatantly ignoring Savage's vast WWE legacy, even though these projects could only be financially beneficial to McMahon's already deep pockets.

 

And yes, that is the saddest irony of all. After almost 20 years away from the WWE, Randy Savage is still costing Vince McMahon money.

[Dmann2000 0]

Now THAT, I can believe

[Enigma 0]

I call bullshit on that. Vince tried fanatically to bring him back in 1996. Also, Vince publicly saying goodbye to him and wishing him well doesn't jive with that either.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Shit Savage should be pissed at Vince for putting him into mid card fueds the whole first 9 months of 1990. How do you go from Wrestling Hogan in the main event of WM5 to jobbing out to Rhodes in less then a year

 

He spent much of the middle-to end of 90 beating Rhodes (SNME in OCt or Nov of that year he went over Rhodes again after SSlam) That feud really went forever.

 

I just learned Dusty and Savage even fought on Cable TV only a few Days before WM 6, where they wrestled again...

[Diamonddust 0]

I do think there is probably bitterness on McMahon's part that Savage has shown he doesn't need the WWE AT ALL in his retirement... not even Hogan can say that. Even with McMahon putting the freeze on him, Savage apparently hasn't grovelled back at Vince's knees begging to be allow back into the family, which only has to further Vince's feelings towards Randy. I remember Raven mentioning to Honky Tonk Man in a shoot interview that the WWE HATES it when guys give the impression they don't need the E anymore. They were talking about how HTM would turn down offers every now and then, only for the office to keep calling him back.

 

The story about the Slim Jim deal is pretty interesting and does make some sense when you think about it. Still, I think it's a combination of factors that have contributed to Savage's exile.

[King Kamala 0]

I'm not sure about the Slim Jim story myself. I vaguely recall one starring Diesel in '95 before they went back to Savage. Anyways, isn't Slim Jim back as WWE sponsor? Don't see why he'd still be so BUTT hurt about it.

 

And if Savage did have an affair with Stephanie when she was 14, why did they keep him around for another two or three years and give him a warm goodbye as well?

 

I'm not sure if there will ever be an explanation of Savage and Vince's estrangement that will ever make 100% sense to me. The one that makes the most sense is the simplest. Savage saved his money and is content in retirement and doesn't want to deal with the BS of the wrestling industry.

[Naked Snake 0]

I think there's some truth to how Savage left the WWF causing a strain in the Savage/McMahon relationship. From Bret Hart's book

 

By the time I got to TVs in Bushkill, Pennsylvania, on November 8, the news was only just hitting, and hitting hard. Randy had jumped to WCW. Jack Lanza told me how Randy called Vince at four in the morning, drunk, to tell him he'd signed: "Randy never even gave Vince a chance to make him a counter offer." I found Vince in his office, and I could see he was shaken.

 

If Savage ever goes in the Hall of Fame, we might see a McMahon/Savage matchup. It will be horrible, but in a train wreck I'm curious to see it.