Is Music A Dying Art...

[NoCalMike 0]

Tom Petty got blackball from Clear Channel when he made the song, "The Last DJ" a song in which a lot of people never heard of until it started showing up in those new music ads that come on before the movies, at theaters.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Oh, and since everyone's complaining about a lack of good music, go find a copy of The Arcade Fire's Funeral. Best album I've heard in some time and recommended to anyone who likes great rock, indie rock, epic rock, and great fucking hooks.

 

And finding good music isn't hard, either. Rag on them for being pretentious-ass motherfuckers, but Pitchfork is usually right on point with the score at least when they rate an album 8.5 or higher. Metacritic is another fantastic resource, compiling together all the reviews for the big releases as well as many smaller but notable groups. Very fun just to browse through.

 

If you want to do it yourself, go to Barnes and Noble, or Borders, or Virgin, or any local CD store that lets you listen before you buy. Hit the new releases, just start listening to some stuff, and see what grabs you. Ain't rocket science.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I'd like to talk about Hatebreed, since they fit the topic at hand.

 

Now, Hatebreed is an odd band. They play a kind of music that doesn't fit in what the major corporations and many music fans would label as "mainstream," that being hardcore, but they're mainstream in every essence. A marketable look? They all dress like they're going to a sporting event, which is how many of the "hardcore kids" dress these days. Marketable music? Every song has the same sound and feel to it, and they have not grown as musicians since forming. Lack of lyrical content? Count how many times the word "destiny" shows up on a Hatebreed album, or how often the songs are about personal pride or honor. They're mainstream without the exposure, and there's no reason for them to be.

 

Oh, wait, yes there is. THEY FUCKING SUCK AND APPEAL TO THE LOWEST COMMON DENOMINATOR OF HEAVY MUSIC FANS. More "elitist" hardcore kids will listen to them still because Hatebreed is the band that got them into the scene, and the mallfucks will listen to them so they seem "underground" and get "street cred" with the elitist fans. They're set for life, and all because they've found a niche and exploited it.

 

Sorry, I'm still just bitter about the band I just left after only being in it for a month and a half. The singer wanted us to be a Hatebreed-esque band, whereas I would have liked to try out incorporating some brutal death, thrash, black metal, and even some rockabilly elements, and the drummer wanted to do more than just double bass and snare. But no. The singer yelled at us whenever we jammed because what we were playing "wasn't core enough." FUCK YOU, MIKE. YOU'RE NOT CORE ENOUGH. You don't acknowledge Black Flag, or Minor Threat, or any other band that helped jumpstart the entire hardcore scene in the 80's, and all you want to do is have me play "Before Dishonor" (Hatebreed) over and over again so we can steal riffs from it. I can't even tell you how many songs of theirs share riffs. Considering they only have 7 songs written? That's terrible.

 

Fuck Warfare, fuck Hatebreed, and fuck mainstream rock.

 

...wow...what a ghey-ass rant...GO SOX!

[Steviekick 0]

That's a pretty good rant. That pretty much sums up what I think of Hatebreed.

[EricMM 0]

I cannot believe someone listed Deathcab for Cutie.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Because you're shocked someone else likes them, or because Ben Gibbard gives you a hernia?

[snuffbox 0]

I cannot believe someone listed Deathcab for Cutie.

Its a legitimate example of good music.

[ZGangsta 0]

Someone hit it on the head when they said that it's the fault of the return of the "single market." That's not only the problem with the quality of mainstream music these days, but also the root of the music industry's money problems.

 

Who is going to spend the time and money making a quality albumn when they can just push the fuck out of whoever has "teh HOT SOUDZ" at that point in time? The industry just focus groups everything to death to try and get that number one single. There's no focus on writing a quality album.

 

And this hurts the industry much more then they realize. Why does the consumer want to buy an albumn when the only worthy thing on it is the single. Why do you think illegal downloading became so damn popular. ALL THEY WANT IS THE SINGLE.

Point. The top grossing artists of 2003:

Paul McCartney

The Rolling Stones

Dave Matthews Band

Fleetwood Mac

Eminem

Bruce Springsteen

Mariah Carey*

Ozzy Osbourne

 

*due to her huge payoff from EMI

 

So where is the single mentality from the most sucessfull artists?

Not there. They made their money touring. Singles DO NOT SELL OUT ARENAS. None of the new bands elicit enough respect from their audiences to draw huge crowds because the albums aren't strong enough.

Good muscisianship is what makes the legendary bands. It's what makes the most sucessful bands. Many of the groups/artists since the video age that are percieved to be hugely sucessful actually never were. You think that the bling-bling rap videos actually represent those guy's lives? No, it's all image. The guys that do live those lives are either producing, or are going to be in soooo much debt to their labels.

 

Now, back pre Zeppelin/Rise of FM, the single had the same effect as it did now. Actually it was worse; I remember reading one of the Beatles complaining that the singles weren't even included on the albums. The huge record sales numbers, and GIANT concert revenues that started happening in the late 60s/70s are a result of bands putting out amazing records that drew people in. Not some 3:30 club hit that you forget the minute you stop dancing. Could any modern band tour to 90,000 person crowds like Led Zeppelin and the Rolling Stones were doing in 73? Not likely.

 

The single market is what's smacking down mainstream music. Unfortunately it's just going to get worse with the rise of iTunes and such. Now on top of a shitty song, you get shitty quality mp3 music as well. Say goodbye to labels caring about good sound quality in a recording studio.

[5_moves_of_doom 0]

For Edwin's comments, I both disagree and agree.

 

On one hand, I DO believe that the music has gone downhill. All of the reasons for this have already been listed by myself and others, so yes...

 

But Edwin is right, good music is STILL NOT HARD TO FIND. Pitchfork, people. They're indie snobs who sometimes rate albums too LOW, if anything, but there are plenty of albums on that site that get 8.0's and above that are absolutely phenominal. I didn't enjoy 2003 all that much, but 2004 has been one of the best music years in half a decade. A lot of this good music has been coming from Sonic Youth and Tom Waits and people who've been around for over 15 years, but there's The Arcade Fire, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, and tons of others.

[Red Baron 0]

In every genre of music, there are good mainstream acts, and then you have the bands banking on the image. Some bands play that type of music, and it takes years for people to take notice, and until people finally notice whats going on, the market becomes oversaturated with that type of style.

 

Nu-Metal has bands such as Sevendust, Godsmack, Deftones, Disturbed, who have had some reasonable success, and talent, was not noticed, till Staind, Korn, Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach have had number one singles, and albums. When these bands got succesful, people start noticing the other bands, who doesn't get as much success, but people are listening to them.

 

What happens is, when a band signed is to that label, and makes big cash, other labels will find a band with the similar type of image and sound, make it a bit different, and cash in on it.

[Red Baron 0]

For Edwin's comments, I both disagree and agree.

 

On one hand, I DO believe that the music has gone downhill. All of the reasons for this have already been listed by myself and others, so yes...

 

But Edwin is right, good music is STILL NOT HARD TO FIND. Pitchfork, people. They're indie snobs who sometimes rate albums too LOW, if anything, but there are plenty of albums on that site that get 8.0's and above that are absolutely phenominal. I didn't enjoy 2003 all that much, but 2004 has been one of the best music years in half a decade. A lot of this good music has been coming from Sonic Youth and Tom Waits and people who've been around for over 15 years, but there's The Arcade Fire, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, and tons of others.

Pitchfork is horrible.

 

Sorry but if it doesn't sound like Radiohead, or Tom Waits, don't expect an album past 7. That's the jist of it.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

For Edwin's comments, I both disagree and agree.

 

On one hand, I DO believe that the music has gone downhill. All of the reasons for this have already been listed by myself and others, so yes...

 

But Edwin is right, good music is STILL NOT HARD TO FIND. Pitchfork, people. They're indie snobs who sometimes rate albums too LOW, if anything, but there are plenty of albums on that site that get 8.0's and above that are absolutely phenominal. I didn't enjoy 2003 all that much, but 2004 has been one of the best music years in half a decade. A lot of this good music has been coming from Sonic Youth and Tom Waits and people who've been around for over 15 years, but there's The Arcade Fire, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, and tons of others.

Pitchfork is horrible.

 

Sorry but if it doesn't sound like Radiohead, or Tom Waits, don't expect an album past 7. That's the jist of it.

A really stereotypical reading of the site, but you know, if that were actually the case, I would still be pretty happy with it. They're a site that focuses on music that's usually below the mainstream radar or experimental stuff. That's what I go there for and they do their thing pretty nicely.

 

Some musicians off the top of my head who've recently gotten scores over 9 and sound nothing like either Radiohead or Tom Waits: Wilco, Trail of Dead, Dizzee Rascal, The Streets, Madvillain, The Wrens, Loretta Lynn, Brian Wilson, Franz Ferdinand, Les Savy Fav, Basement Jaxx. I'm sure there are plenty more, too.

[NoCalMike 0]

the current state of downloading sucks. I mean sure we can all still find what we need, but the RIAA did a lot to scare young people(and people in general) into paying for mp3s. Now basically kids everywhere are just paying for mp3s of the same garbage that is on the radio, which is sad, and depressing because that pretty much goes against some of the main principles of mp3/file-sharing represented in the first place.

[Guest El Satanico]

The RIAA only managed to push it back underground...and scare children. Bravo RIAA...ya cunts. The "free" downloading scene is like the current mafia. It's there, but it's running under the radar and isn't making it self noticable.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I cannot believe someone listed Deathcab for Cutie.

Its a legitimate example of good music.

Yeah maybe, but you're not supposed to come out and say it! Have some dignity

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

Some musicians off the top of my head who've recently gotten scores over 9 and sound nothing like either Radiohead or Tom Waits: Wilco, Trail of Dead, Dizzee Rascal, The Streets, Madvillain, The Wrens, Loretta Lynn, Brian Wilson, Franz Ferdinand, Les Savy Fav, Basement Jaxx. I'm sure there are plenty more, too.

Brian Wilson and Loretta Lynn aren't the best examples, even for not sounding like Waits or Radiohead, Edwin. EVERYONE knows of Wilson's genius. A retarded monkey strung out on heroin could listen to Wilson and know that brilliance is coming through the speakers. And Loretta Lynn has been putting out acclaimed albums for years as well.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

For Edwin's comments, I both disagree and agree.

 

On one hand, I DO believe that the music has gone downhill. All of the reasons for this have already been listed by myself and others, so yes...

 

But Edwin is right, good music is STILL NOT HARD TO FIND. Pitchfork, people. They're indie snobs who sometimes rate albums too LOW, if anything, but there are plenty of albums on that site that get 8.0's and above that are absolutely phenominal. I didn't enjoy 2003 all that much, but 2004 has been one of the best music years in half a decade. A lot of this good music has been coming from Sonic Youth and Tom Waits and people who've been around for over 15 years, but there's The Arcade Fire, Modest Mouse, Franz Ferdinand, and tons of others.

Pitchfork is horrible.

 

Sorry but if it doesn't sound like Radiohead, or Tom Waits, don't expect an album past 7. That's the jist of it.

A really stereotypical reading of the site, but you know, if that were actually the case, I would still be pretty happy with it. They're a site that focuses on music that's usually below the mainstream radar or experimental stuff. That's what I go there for and they do their thing pretty nicely.

 

Some musicians off the top of my head who've recently gotten scores over 9 and sound nothing like either Radiohead or Tom Waits: Wilco, Trail of Dead, Dizzee Rascal, The Streets, Madvillain, The Wrens, Loretta Lynn, Brian Wilson, Franz Ferdinand, Les Savy Fav, Basement Jaxx. I'm sure there are plenty more, too.

What I feel baron was getting at is that if a band plays heavy music, Pitchfork won't rate it good. I have yet to see a positive review of a metal record from a newer band (or even a review of a record from a newer metal act, such as Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, and Nile), for fans of heavy music, such as myself and baron and, well, you know..."the metal crew" of TSM, it shows bias and elitism.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

What I feel baron was getting at is that if a band plays heavy music, Pitchfork won't rate it good. I have yet to see a positive review of a metal record from a newer band (or even a review of a record from a newer metal act, such as Lamb of God, Shadows Fall, and Nile), for fans of heavy music, such as myself and baron and, well, you know..."the metal crew" of TSM, it shows bias and elitism.

That's certainly valid - the only really heavy group Pitchfork looks at regularly is Dillinger, and they don't do a good job of discussing most heavy, hard rock. It's kind of a ships in the night thing. If you're mostly after metal, definitely look elsewhere for good recommendations. Still, I think the spectrum of non-heavy music they cover (and cover favorably) is a lot wider than Waits and Radiohead, and I'm mentioning them as a broader source since this topic has been about music in general and not specifically metal/heavier tunes.

[Slayer 0]

Something I've noticed while reading this thread is that most of the posters are American/Canadian and talking about the North American mainstream

 

I'd like to know what the state of mainstream music is like in other countries (UK, Australia, whoever the hell else we have hanging around here)

[razazteca 0]

UK has what GLC, the Streets, the Darkness, alot of piano based bands and DJ's whose only talent is to speed up the tempo of songs to over 180 BPM?

[LJSexay 0]

I cannot believe someone listed Deathcab for Cutie.

Its a legitimate example of good music.

I love Death Cab for Cutie. They have some of the best mood music EVER. ever.

 

And The Velvet Teen

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

Something I've noticed while reading this thread is that most of the posters are American/Canadian and talking about the North American mainstream

 

I'd like to know what the state of mainstream music is like in other countries (UK, Australia, whoever the hell else we have hanging around here)

I know that Arch Enemy and Shadows Fall are pretty big in Japan, ditto Misfits '98, and that Iron Maiden and Cradle of Filth regularly top the charts in the UK and Europe. Germany is one of the most metal-friendly nations in the world (and can you blame them, since they'll forever carry the Nazi stigma, and their economy was in the shitter for the longest amount of time?), and I do believe France has a growing rap fanbase thanks to MC Solaar.

[1234-5678 0]

"Almost all current music is worthless. Very simply, is has no soul. It is fraudulent, and so are the mechanisms which perpetuate the lie that anybody else finds it vital enough to do more the consume and file, or 'collect' (be the first person on your block). New Wave has terminated in thudding hollow Xeroxes of poses that aren't even annoying anymore. Rap is nothing, or not enough. Jazz does not exist as a musical form with anything new to say. And the rest of rock is recycling various formulae forever. I don't know what I am going to write about-music is the only thing in the world I really care about-but I simply cannot pretend to find anything compelling in the choice between pap and mud."---Lester Bangs

[Steviekick 0]

Something I've noticed while reading this thread is that most of the posters are American/Canadian and talking about the North American mainstream

 

I'd like to know what the state of mainstream music is like in other countries (UK, Australia, whoever the hell else we have hanging around here)

I know that Arch Enemy and Shadows Fall are pretty big in Japan, ditto Misfits '98, and that Iron Maiden and Cradle of Filth regularly top the charts in the UK and Europe. Germany is one of the most metal-friendly nations in the world (and can you blame them, since they'll forever carry the Nazi stigma, and their economy was in the shitter for the longest amount of time?), and I do believe France has a growing rap fanbase thanks to MC Solaar.

I think the reasons why a band like Arch Enemy is barely a blip stateside and does very well in Japan is partly due to the fact that the Japanese, and I guess Europe, seem to be much more open minded with music and pop culture in general. Things also become much more fad like because of that, but they still have the opportunity to come back.

 

Stratovarius is a perfect example of this. These guys are very cheesy and poppy sounding power metal. They do extremely well in Europe and Japan...good record sales and financially lucrative touring.

 

In North America, they barely break the 5,000 mark and wouldn't tour due to lack of people wanting to book them and it not being financially feasible.

[Red Baron 0]

Nightwish is also another European metal band that makes it big in Europe and not a dent in NA, though the "similarities" between them and Evenesense helped a bit.

[NoCalMike 0]

"Almost all current music is worthless. Very simply, is has no soul. It is fraudulent, and so are the mechanisms which perpetuate the lie that anybody else finds it vital enough to do more the consume and file, or 'collect' (be the first person on your block). New Wave has terminated in thudding hollow Xeroxes of poses that aren't even annoying anymore. Rap is nothing, or not enough. Jazz does not exist as a musical form with anything new to say. And the rest of rock is recycling various formulae forever. I don't know what I am going to write about-music is the only thing in the world I really care about-but I simply cannot pretend to find anything compelling in the choice between pap and mud."---Lester Bangs

Wow, nuff said.