ECW tidbit from the Observer

[Enigma 0]

I was never thinking this was going to be exactly like the old ECW. But ever since I started following this revival of ECW in Meltzer's newsletter and reading everything he wrote about what it was going to be, I got excited.

 

I would have loved an Internet-only show or the 1am USA Network show. All that I read before the show debuted was that Paul Heyman & Tommy Dreamer were going to be in charge of the promotion, and basically Vince McMahon just oversees everything and makes sure everything is going smoothly. It was going to be treated as a AAA baseball team is to a major league baseball team.

 

However, I started becoming skeptical when I read the shows were going to be done at the Smackdown tapings. That alone was going to produce a bad ECW show because the environment would not be there. It would always be ECW in front of people there who bought tickets to watch Smackdown.

 

With that being said, the bottom line is this new ECW was, according to Dave Meltzer, originally and geniunely supposed to be Vince's answer to bringing back the hardcore wrestling fans who may have stopped watching when WCW and ECW died in 2001. This was originally supposed to appeal to the fans that currently watch TNA and Ring of Honor.

 

But then the Sci-Fi deal was made and it all came crashing down.

 

I found it so ironic that Paul Heyman claimed they were on a "much better network this time around" at One Night Stand, because the NBC Executives behind Sci-Fi have really helped ruin this project thus far.

 

Instead of being a grassroots show with lower production values, we get a primetime show. And oh yeah, it's LIVE. The pressure already came on to have to make a fancier show.

 

The Sci-Fi deal has turned out to be a cancer to the new ECW. The LIVE @ 10pm slot forced Vince McMahon, Kevin Dunn, Stephanie McMahon and her band of crappy writers to plague the show with their sports entertainment garbage and totally neuter any chance this new ECW had of succeeding in their original plan.

 

Then NBC Executives demanded established star talent on the show. So, we get Kurt Angle and The Big Show moved over to ECW. Not good enough. So we have to have people like John Cena, Edge, and Randy Orton all over the place the first few weeks.

 

It's said now that the original plan has been thrown so far out the window, that Vince is now going to take ECW and market it to the WWE crowd. That's why you never saw Steven DeAngelis. That's why you'll never see Atlas Security anymore (can't get in the way of those camera shots!). That's why you'll never see original referees Jim Molineaux & John Finnegan again. That's why WWE is currently debating on shitcanning people they originally signed for the project like Tony Mamaluke, Justin Credible, Balls Mahoney, etc. That's why you'll never see ECW in the ECW Arena on television (what's a show without pyro anyways?!).

 

It's also now to a point where Paul Heyman's job is to write a show, hand it to Vince & Steph and they liberally make changes to it. Paul wanted Test vs. Al Snow to be a competitive match to re-establish Al Snow as a crazy-yet-competitive fuck, yet putting over Test so everyone realizes he's back and in a big way. Vince & Steph wanted Test to squash Snow in 2 minutes and then bury him by kicking Head into the crowd.

 

According to Meltzer, the current running joke backstage is that Tommy Dreamer's power in the new ECW has now dipped to "less than zero".

 

Who would have thought ECW could have gotten fucked over again as badly by another network as they did back in 2000 with TNN?

 

But hey, Vince is taking ECW global!

[Slickster 0]

If anything, they need to continue with this WWE-izing process and get it over with. If Vince is going to remake ECW in his own image, then he'd best do it quickly so the fan backlash isn't as protracted and drawn-out. That way, the fans will accept ECW as a third brand on its own merits instead of endlessly comparing it to its previous incarnation.

[Gary Floyd 0]

Lushus is dead on. I can't believe how some people (here and elsewhere) got conned into believing that this ECW would be anything like the old ECW.

I pretty much knew it was going to suck from he get go.

[Enigma 0]

Lushus is dead on. I can't believe how some people (here and elsewhere) got conned into believing that this ECW would be anything like the old ECW.

I pretty much knew it was going to suck from he get go.

My thing was I didn't think Paul Heyman would sign on to do something that involved reviving ECW unless he saw it as something that could 100% work. But I have a feeling this isn't turning out as the project he signed on to do.

[Vyce 0]

Why do you think Heyman has that much integrity?

 

Like anyone else in the business, he saw $$$ in reviving it.

[JimmyHendricks 0]

I think it was part $$$, and part desire to see ECW work again that influenced Heyman. I mean, there's no way he's going to be able to do it without Vince, since Vince owns ECW now, so he agreed to go ahead with it.

 

It's like going back to your childhood home, even though the neighborhood is shitty and the house has been remodeled. But hey, it was YOUR house, and you'd sure like to see it again anyway. I think that's how Heyman is--he so desperately wants to see ECW alive again that it doesn't matter. Oh and yes, he makes money off of it. But I don't think money is the dominating factor here.

[Hasbeen1 0]

Anything new will take time. I see Big Show, Angle, being phased out, new guys like CM Punk and Knox (just examples, probably more) being elevated, over time. How many knew who Sandman, Dreamer, Rob Van Dam were when ECW began? It's funny, I read here that people don't want nostalgia, then they complain when Mahoney, etc, aren't pushed as big stars.

[Astro7x 0]

How many knew who Sandman, Dreamer, Rob Van Dam were when ECW began? It's funny, I read here that people don't want nostalgia, then they complain when Mahoney, etc, aren't pushed as big stars.

 

I kind of agree with that... ECW was known for taking nobodies and turning them into somebodies. But the fans shit on Mike Knox before they even saw him wrestle. The crowd won't even give a chance to anybody new (besides Punk), yet the older stars like Dreamer just can't go like they use to.

 

It's not like the old days anymore, where if Test had left WWE and went to ECW, the fans would have given him a chance. Now it' "Boo! A WWE guy!" right from the get go. My guess is that if Punk doesn't live up to the hype, I'll be hearing it's because WWE limited his moveset or something.

 

I swear, sometimes I just watch the shows on their own without the OAO Smart Marks thread commentarys, and they are not as bad as you guys make them out to be. Then again, sometimes the MST3Kesq threads are what save a crappy show.

[Wrestlefreak 0]

We all knew that ECW never had a chance in hell of being as successful as it was in the past now that it's under the WWE umbrella, but they could at least have done the logical thing and given the person who made the original promotion work(Heyman), the ultimate power over the brand if they wanna make their watered-down version of ECW even remotely successful.

 

However, making the buck stop at Heyman isn't the only thing that will help ECW. Smaller crowds, giving it two hours(although if they don't actually improve the product, it would be a waste of time) and more freedom to be create a more violent product would also be a help.

 

IMO, even better than the suggestions I made, would be to get rid of ECW altogether!

[Scroby 0]

It's also now to a point where Paul Heyman's job is to write a show, hand it to Vince & Steph and they liberally make changes to it. Paul wanted Test vs. Al Snow to be a competitive match to re-establish Al Snow as a crazy-yet-competitive fuck, yet putting over Test so everyone realizes he's back and in a big way. Vince & Steph wanted Test to squash Snow in 2 minutes and then bury him by kicking Head into the crowd.

 

From what I understand the Al Snow vs Test match changed to a squash was because the last minute main event needed more time. I think someone posted that in this thread or in some other ECW thread, but thats the reason why the match changed.

 

On a side note, I really agree with you S_D about your post. I was on the same boat you were on with getting excited that ECW was going to be billed as a differant promotion instead of a 3rd brand. I was excited that Dreamer and Heyman were suppose to be running it, but as soon as the Sci-fi deal happen, everything drastically changed.

[Art Sandusky 0]

It'd be awesome if Tod Gordon showed up this week to rip apart the WWE-ized product and took back "his" promotion, making it an ECW for 2006 with Punk and other (talented) young'uns leading the charge. That's really the only thing that can save this right now. Shame it won't happen.

 

What bothers me most is that the entire build for the relaunch of the promotion centered around being sick of what WWE is all about, then it promptly became another WWE production, with all of the people who decried it going right along with this product. Every bit of Joey Styles' initial "shoot" has been contradicted at this point. Given how much they were pushing ECW as an alternative, those like myself who were really hyped about it can't really be called stupid. I figured they wouldn't bother crapping all over their own Raw and Smackdown shows if it wasn't going to be something that was truly different.

[justcoz 0]

How many knew who Sandman, Dreamer, Rob Van Dam were when ECW began? It's funny, I read here that people don't want nostalgia, then they complain when Mahoney, etc, aren't pushed as big stars.

 

I kind of agree with that... ECW was known for taking nobodies and turning them into somebodies. But the fans shit on Mike Knox before they even saw him wrestle. The crowd won't even give a chance to anybody new (besides Punk), yet the older stars like Dreamer just can't go like they use to.

 

It's not like the old days anymore, where if Test had left WWE and went to ECW, the fans would have given him a chance. Now it' "Boo! A WWE guy!" right from the get go. My guess is that if Punk doesn't live up to the hype, I'll be hearing it's because WWE limited his moveset or something.

 

I swear, sometimes I just watch the shows on their own without the OAO Smart Marks thread commentarys, and they are not as bad as you guys make them out to be. Then again, sometimes the MST3Kesq threads are what save a crappy show.

 

Again however much of that is the WWE guys that they are putting in front of an ECW audience. Kurt Angle and Edge were accepted by the ECW audience. Angle would receive some boos when facing ECW alumni but that was to be expected. If you put Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Matt Hardy, Super Crazy, Jamie Noble, Psychosis or Chris Benoit in front of an ECW audience they likely wouldn't get shit on. They'd have some credibility with that audience that Test and Big Show don't.

[Enigma 0]

It'd be awesome if Tod Gordon showed up this week to rip apart the WWE-ized product and took back "his" promotion, making it an ECW for 2006 with Punk and other (talented) young'uns leading the charge. That's really the only thing that can save this right now. Shame it won't happen.

 

What bothers me most is that the entire build for the relaunch of the promotion centered around being sick of what WWE is all about, then it promptly became another WWE production, with all of the people who decried it going right along with this product. Every bit of Joey Styles' initial "shoot" has been contradicted at this point. Given how much they were pushing ECW as an alternative, those like myself who were really hyped about it can't really be called stupid. I figured they wouldn't bother crapping all over their own Raw and Smackdown shows if it wasn't going to be something that was truly different.

I always thought it was funny that on the Raw before ECW's first show on Sci-Fi, Stevie Richards kept using the buzzphrase "experience the difference".

 

And what a difference it was! Edge & John Cena fighting! A WWE guy beating up the ECW Champion!

 

Puke.

[Astro7x 0]

Again however much of that is the WWE guys that they are putting in front of an ECW audience. Kurt Angle and Edge were accepted by the ECW audience. Angle would receive some boos when facing ECW alumni but that was to be expected. If you put Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Matt Hardy, Super Crazy, Jamie Noble, Psychosis or Chris Benoit in front of an ECW audience they likely wouldn't get shit on. They'd have some credibility with that audience that Test and Big Show don't.

 

You have a point. People want to see all those cruiserweights give it their all in an ECW setting and would accept them as being part of the brand.

 

Even in ECW's prime, there were a lot of people that I didn't enjoy seeing on TV. I never liked Roadkill, Doring and C.W. Anderson, yet those guys are still around and I do not want to see them pushed. I was also a big fan of the Impact Players, so I'd like to see Credible get a push even though people hate him.

 

The one thing that bugs the hell out of me is seeing stuff that I could be seeing if ECW didn't come back. I don't like seeing a RVD/Big Show feud, RVD/Angle, Angle/Show, or even Dreamer/Show since it's something that could have been offered before with them under contract. Using the WWE wrestlers does make it seem like Raw Hour 3 and not something different enough to peak my interest.

 

Maybe the problem with everyone having their fantasy booking in their mind is that if WWE doesn't do it, they want to shit all over it. Just look at some of the ideas in this thread, totaly unrealistic. And I know it's just discussion, but come on. As much as everyone loves CM Punk, you still have to build the guy up considering some people have never seen him before.

[razazteca 0]

Just look at some of the ideas in this thread, totaly unrealistic.

Is it too much to ask for wrestlers to work outside of the "WWE Style" and give their all in the ring in matches that last longer than 3 minutes and at least be ** caliber? Is it too much to ask for announcers to call matches in a manner that does not sound like it could of been JR/King/Coach/Cole working it? What happened to the no rules anything can happen taking it to the extreme motto? You do know there is more to hardcore than bringing a shopping cart of weapons to the ring or grabbing a cookie sheet from under the ring!

[Guest JustPassinBy]

The only thing that appealed to me from the old ECW was the actual matches. I watched to see the spot fests, tables, ladders, chairs, thumbtacks, and for Joey Styles to scream when a guy made an insane move. Stuff I couldnt see in WCW or WWF.

 

Now, none of that will happen bc Vince doesnt want his wrestlers to get hurt, despite their being more health problems associated with roids, than simply jumping off things.

 

ECW will not be the same until they bring back New Jack. Anyone know where he is?

[Slickster 0]

New Jack's probably running from the law or stabbing somebody right now.

 

From last night's show in Racine:

Before the next match, Tommy Dreamer came out and said that the WWE suits just think of ECW as a little company that has a few fans in Philadelphia and New York and doesn't recognize the nationwide support of the company. He thanked the fans for supporting ECW and making ECW One Night Stand compete with Wrestlemania on the pay-per-view and home video charts and hopes that one day Wrestlemania will be number 2. He mentioned all the talent that ECW brought in like Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko who was pointed out as sitting on a stage near the entrance ramp.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

Admit you were wrong, give Heyman a 2 or 3 year deal, give him creative control, sign the checks, and get out of his way. With the WWE marketing machine he'd make you money on the deal.

Yes, because Paul made money when he was running the thing on his own.

 

I swear, sometimes I just watch the shows on their own without the OAO Smart Marks thread commentarys, and they are not as bad as you guys make them out to be. Then again, sometimes the MST3Kesq threads are what save a crappy show.

Come move to the west coast and watch on cable feed where you have to wait 3 hours and the posters on this forum (who seem to live majorily on the east side) have already torn into it. The shows ARE better than usually called on here, although even without the TSM commentary thread there was no denying that last week's Raw was a piece of shit, even compared to the past few Raws before it. I mean, the Kane angle was just dropped and forgotten about, which is lousy booking.

 

The only time I trust TSM's quality judgments is the immediate opinions after a PPV, because there's only a few people who order any particular PPV, and they're usually more dedicated and able to judge the value of a show than the usual "this sux somebody kill stephhh already" people here.

[justcoz 0]

Admit you were wrong, give Heyman a 2 or 3 year deal, give him creative control, sign the checks, and get out of his way. With the WWE marketing machine he'd make you money on the deal.

Yes, because Paul made money when he was running the thing on his own.

 

Actually they did make money. He just didn't manage that money very well. His strength is his mind for the wrestling business, not business itself.

[Guest Coffey]

I didn't think this new "ECW" was "doomed from the start." No, I thought it was doomed after watching One Night Stand 2. I was honestly baffled at the majority of people whom praised that show. Even the guys over on the LAW (whether you agree with them or not) were praising the show. One of them even going as far as to say that the show was better than the previous year's PPV! Yeah, Angle signing to ECW was a black hole and a pretty big indicator of things to come but I was willing to give that a try. Then, when the PPV hit, I wasn't in denial anymore.

 

Look at all the things that happened on that show. Sandman without his music. Mahoney squashing Tanaka. Angle Vs. Orton (two WWE wrestlers) getting twenty minutes of time to do some headlocks & body scissors. Sabu/Mysterio going to a "no contest" and RVD winning the main event in, basically, screw job fashion. There was more wrong than there was right...and it was obvious that it was a "tease" of what the new ECW was going to be all about. Which, basically, meant ECW was going to be WWE. I felt bad for Funk, Foley, etc. whom did so much to themselves on THAT show. I wish it would've been more memorable.

 

Then the first ECW on Sci-Fi show came. It was terrible. Universally shit on. I haven't watched wrestling since the show, actually. Not Raw, Smackdown anymore ECW, PPVs or even TNA or ROH. I even stopped reading a lot of wrestling sites and forums because it killed my interest that much. Hell, this is the first time I've come here to TSM in close to a month, save for one post. Honestly, I haven't missed it. I thought I would but it's really not even that big of a deal. It's not a "habit" thing. It's just that I was such a huge ECW fan when they were around and watching what it has become, or what this version of it is, just sucked the life out of me. I was pessimistic since day one anyway, so I'm sure I would've been more critical than most regardless but it was even worse than I imagined. Then, after the first show, people were like "it'll get better." "What 'til next week!" "It can't get worse!" I just read all those comments and I thought to myself "is that what I've been like? That delusional?" So, I gave it up. I was tired of having my intelligence insulted. I was tired of being embarassed to admit that I watch wrestling. It's still faux pas. People have been saying it for years, usually because of something ridiculous that WWE does. I've been on the other end of the argument several times myself. I've defended wrestling to the end...but really, once you're on the other side of the fence, all the shit the other people have said in past arguments, starts to make a lot more sense.

 

I've watched wrestling for close to twenty years now. When I was a kid, I even thought that I wanted to be a wrestler. Then I got older and reality set in. You read stories about how hard a lifestyle it is. How sleezy of a business it is. How hard to be successful at it it is. So you think "fuck that" but you keep watching because it's still entertaining. Then, one day, it's not entertaining anymore. So, now what? You don't talk about wrestling anymore. You don't read about wrestling anymore on the internet or in magazines or wrestlers auto-biographies. You don't watch wrestling anymore or attend shows or buy tapes or download PPVs. It kinda makes you feel like you've wasted a lot of time and money when you reflect on it.

 

I just wanted to put my two cents in because I thought this was a good thread. There's a lot of people that have expressed a lot of opinions in this thread. Obviously, there's a lot of distain for what's going on in the world of wrestling right now. This isn't a "hey, I stopped, you should stop" post. No, I wouldn't tell someone to do that. I watched WWE for a long time and watched a lot of horrendous shit go down. I can sympathize with people that still tune in every Monday because there's nothing else to do anyway. I just wanted to give my perspective, even though my opinion might not be as valid as one of those whom have watched the ECW show every week. This "ECW" was bad enough to make a die-hard, twenty-year watching "smark" call it quits...and I've put up with a lot of shit in the past. So, take that as you will.

[2GOLD 0]

New Jack's probably running from the law or stabbing somebody right now.

 

From last night's show in Racine:

Before the next match, Tommy Dreamer came out and said that the WWE suits just think of ECW as a little company that has a few fans in Philadelphia and New York and doesn't recognize the nationwide support of the company. He thanked the fans for supporting ECW and making ECW One Night Stand compete with Wrestlemania on the pay-per-view and home video charts and hopes that one day Wrestlemania will be number 2. He mentioned all the talent that ECW brought in like Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and Dean Malenko who was pointed out as sitting on a stage near the entrance ramp.

 

So what's the timetable on the release of Tommy Dreamer now?

[razazteca 0]

5 on 1 match against the Spirit Squad on Monday with Mr. McMahon screwing "You're Fired!"?

[Slickster 0]

I'd say it's another worked shoot line from Dreamer

[Scroby 0]

Actually this whole Dreamer thing could work out to be a decent angle between him and Big Show.

 

Dreamer is disgusted with how the whole ECW is running and he feels that Big Show is something that is diffently wrong with whats going on.....or something similar.

[slabinskia 0]

You know what I would love ? Have Vince go out and call out dreamer on his comments. Then he can tell him to join the kiss my ass club or be fired. While dreamer stands there wondering what he should do, the eliminators come out of the crowd and hit vince with total elimination. I know it would never happen but that would be a real mark out moment.

[Enigma 0]

You know what I would love ? Have Vince go out and call out dreamer on his comments. Then he can tell him to join the kiss my ass club or be fired. While dreamer stands there wondering what he should do, the eliminators come out of the crowd and hit vince with total elimination. I know it would never happen but that would be a real mark out moment.

I really wonder how soon it will be before Vince starts running around on ECW shows.

[Hawk 34 0]

You know what I would love ? Have Vince go out and call out dreamer on his comments. Then he can tell him to join the kiss my ass club or be fired. While dreamer stands there wondering what he should do, the eliminators come out of the crowd and hit vince with total elimination. I know it would never happen but that would be a real mark out moment.

 

Yeah. One is nearly paralyzed.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

One thing that bothers me that keeps coming up...people complain about the referees being different, different ring announcer, Atlas security not being there...come on now...I watch wrestling for the wrestlers. I couldn't care less who the refs or security guard are at ringside. For all ECW's problems, the least thing they need to worry about is the color of the shirts the security guys are wearing.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

One thing that bothers me that keeps coming up...people complain about the referees being different, different ring announcer, Atlas security not being there...come on now...I watch wrestling for the wrestlers. I couldn't care less who the refs or security guard are at ringside. For all ECW's problems, the least thing they need to worry about is the color of the shirts the security guys are wearing.

 

Agreed. I don't even mind that the production is spruced up or that it is on SciFi. It just bugs me that the ECW originals (save Sabu and Sandman) are treated as if it's a arduous chore to squeeze them into the show.

[qdes 0]

You know what I would love ? Have Vince go out and call out dreamer on his comments. Then he can tell him to join the kiss my ass club or be fired. While dreamer stands there wondering what he should do, the eliminators come out of the crowd and hit vince with total elimination. I know it would never happen but that would be a real mark out moment.

 

so... why did you even bother?