WWF Observer notes

[Jericho2000Mark 0]

What I don't understand is why Monsoon gets bashed while Gordon Solie gets praised, Solie was quite possibly the single most boring, emotionless, robotic announcer I've ever heard. He showed absolutely no ehthusiasm in anything he said. I remember watching a tape where Dusty Rhodes won the title, and you wouldn't even know if you didn't listen closely. He sounded like he had just watched Steve Lombardi wrestle Len Denton.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

That was Solie's style though, he presented what was happening like an authentic sport event. None of that over-selling crap that we got today. Solie just was straight down the line. A straight shooter if you will.

 

I love Gorilla, but there were only two teams where he excelled. With Jesse, and with Heenan, because they knew how to play off his stuff. Jesse's mocking of Gorilla's body part announcements never gets old, while Gorilla was one half of probably the single greatest announcing moment ever with the 92 rumble.

 

But with anyone else? Gorilla got sucked down with them into suckitude.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

Thanks for posting all these.

 

Gorilla was a great announcer but stuck around past his prime, like Jim Ross.

[landy1987 0]

Here's the notes from the 2/2/87 issue (I don't have 1/19 and there was no issue 1/26 so there's more info in this issue - all credit to Dave Meltzer and the WO newsletter for all the info I've been typing up)

 

2/2/87:

 

Jim Neidhart was arrested for allegedly slugging a stewardess on a Tampa to Pittsburgh flight on 1/15 and faces a hearing on 1/29. It was alleged that the wrestler punched a flight attendant 4 or 5 times on the arm when she demanded payment for the 2 beers she had served him. Neidhart missed his match on 1/15 in Struthers, Ohio but wrestled the next night in Pittsburgh after being freed on $10,000 unsecured bond. Neidhart is being charged with a felony and faces up to 20 years in prison and a $10,000 fine if convicted.

 

The biggest news of this week is that apparently WrestleMania III will take place in one location--the Pontiac Silverdome in suburban Detroit. Apparently there are so many problems inherent in trying to run a card from three sites like last year, however it was the three live gates at last year's WrestleMania, which totaled $1.1 million that saved the show from being more of a holocaust than it was. However, the Silverdome holds a potential 85,000 fans for wrestling, which if filled to the brim, would mean a one-site gate in excess of $2 million. The site itself makes sense for several reasons--first off, many of the angles will be shot in Detroit on 2/21 at the SNME taping; second, Titan's hottest area for wrestling is Ontario--just across the border from Detroit, and with a Sunday afternoon card, people can come from a 250 mile radius and still make it hope before 9:30 p.m.; and third, behind held on the U.S. side of the border allows them to charge U.S. dollars for ticket prices, and enables Titan to avoid Canadian taxes, that $1.2 million gate for the Exhibition Stadium show in Toronto last August netted only $650,000 when crossing the border.

 

Speaking of that Detroit NBC taping, scheduled for a 3/7 air date, the show will be headlined by a 20 man battle royal featuring both Hulk Hogan and Andre the Giant. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure this one out--the closest thing Hulk will do to a job would be to get thrown over the top, so I presume Andre and Hogan will be the final two and Andre will pearl-harbor Hulk to win the thing. Also on the card will be Randy Savage vs. George Steele with the winner to get Elizabeth (they are running that same match throughout the circus in February), Jake Roberts vs. King Kong Bundy, Ricky Steamboat vs. Iron Sheik, Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart vs. Mike Rotundo & Danny Spivey and Kamala vs. Corporal Kirchner. I'm told they are advertising this card heavy-duty in an attempt to sell out Joe Louis Arena, which holds in the 20,000 range, and I'm also told the card is a sure-fire sell out.

 

In what could either be a big hype job, or a big story, but I'd bet on the former, Roddy Piper was quoted in the Toronto Sun on 1/24 as saying he will retire from wrestling after his match with Adrian Adonis at WrestleMania. It's a few months early for Piper's annual summer holdout, but at the same time, if Piper's trying to use leverage in getting more money, he's no longer hot enough to get away with it. Perhaps he realizes that and really will retire. He has been saying, ever since he was 25 that he’d retire at 35 but tons of wrestlers say that and never do. Perhaps it's just to build up the live gate for the 2/15 Toronto card, since the NWA is debuting that same night in nearby Hamilton with Ric Flair, and Titan has to rely on Piper vs. Adonis--which has proven to be a weak draw, on top. The 2/15 match is being heavily hyped as Piper's final live appearance in Toronto (one of the many Canadian towns he grew up in) before his retirement.

 

Anyway, it looks like WM3 will go something like this: Andre vs. Hogan for the title (this one is for sure); Savage vs. Steamboat for the IC title (this one is also for sure; my guess is it will be in a cage); Hart Foundation vs. Martel & Zenk for the tag team title (this is planned like this, but a lot of variables--specifically how Neidhart does in court this week--may effect the decision to give Hart-Neidhart tag belts in the first place); Piper vs. Adonis (Roddy's last match supposedly); Billy Jack Haynes vs. Hercules Hernandez (possibly a chain match); Junkyard Dog vs. Harley Race and Butch Reed vs. Tito Santana. Danny Davis will fit in somewhere as he's been hyped too heavily over the past few months not to have a key role. I've heard, but haven't had it confirmed, that they will announce Davis' referees contract expires April 1 or something, so this would be his final match as a ref.

 

According to the Cassandra report of 11/8, which rated all syndicated shows in the U.S, the highest rated wrestling show is WWF Superstars of Wrestling, with a 3.8 rating and a 13 share in 119 markets. That's 56th among all syndicated shows… The 8.5 or 9.9 or whatever national ratings that Titan is claiming in its press releases, which rank its shows among the top three in syndication, is actually the combination of ratings of all its shows in the different markets, which can be 3-6 shows per market. The recent NBC show indicates that the number of wrestling fans haven't dropped; it's simply TV over saturation which is grinding down the ratings of the individual shows... At the NATPE convention in New Orleans over the weekend - Titan was there with a wrestling ring, and several matches with Scott McGhee, J.J. Funk, the Gladiator (Ricky Hunter), Paul Roma, Terry Gibbs and Jerry Allen (Jerry Oski) participating. Gene Okerlund and Bobby Heenan were doing fall-by-fall over the loudspeaker during the matches, and I believe got on Entertainment Tonight as well.

 

Hogan-Kamala continues to go great guns everywhere. Their 1/3 match in Oakland drew 15,534 fans and $179,128. The crowd was the largest to see pro wrestling in Northern California in 12 years while the gate is an all-time record high… 1/24 in Los Angeles drew a sell out 16,000 for the same match with a bloody Hogan winning via DQ… The movie "Bodyslam" with Roddy Piper and Tonga Kid in major roles is scheduled for a March release… 1/19 MSG drew its third consecutive full house (all three with Hogan on the card) with Hogan beating Kamala in a 7:00 marathon; after the match, Andre (who of course didn't wrestle on the card) suddenly shows up and grabs the title belt from ringside and he and Hulk have a stare down before he throws the belt at Hulk... They surely won't continue that sell out streak on 2/23 with a 6 man elimination tag match (Steamboat-JYD-Piper vs. Adonis-Savage-Race) on top, plus Jake the Snake vs. Bundy and Reed vs. Santana… As I write this they are doing TV tapes tomorrow night in Tampa (1/26) and the following night in St. Petersburg (actually Ft. Myers). The Florida office has a show in Tampa on 1/27 headlined by Kevin Sullivan vs. Bad News Allen, and considering Titan has Hogan vs. Kamala both nights, Florida will be lucky to draw 200 people. Jim Duggan will debut as a strong babyface type character. The hot rumor is that Dynamite Kid was to fly down for the taping and stand in the corner while Davey Boy Smith loses the tag title to Hart & Neidhart. However Neidhart's legal status makes that questionable… Titan has a tour of Australia coming in a few weeks and Andre will start wrestling there (since he hasn't worked in six months and is terribly out of shape). Owen Hart will also be on the tour, but under another name (the tour actually ended up being canceled at the last minute). 1/24 in Detroit drew 8,000 as Savage beat Steamboat via DQ and Smith-Roddy Piper beat Hart-Neidhart with Danny Davis as referee… 1/18 in Miami drew 5,267 as Hogan beat Kamala, Ware beat Orndorff via DQ and Martel-Zenk beat Valentine-Beefcake… 1/19 in Lincoln, NE before 4,332 had Santana beat Reed in a terrible cage match… 1/11 in Nashville drew 4,460 as Iron Sheik won a Bunkhouse battle royal, and Piper pinned Adonis… 1/17 in Rochester drew 5,200 for a Bunkhouse won by Hernandez (although Mulligan was supposed to win, the ring announcer did a royal screw up)… 1/16 in Pittsburgh drew 8,012 and $72, 942.50 for Savage-Steamboat… 1.17 in Greenburg, PA drew 1,200 as Islanders DDQ Raymond Rougeau-Sivi Afi, Bravo and Slater went to a 20:00 draw which lasted 11:45 (Johnny Valiant told the ref to cheat on the time because he had a girl waiting for him) and Haynes pinned Hernandez. Tom Magee and Outhouse Jack worked the undercard. Outhouse was described to me as someone who will be as popular as JYD or Hillbilly Jim, with about the same ability… According to Advertising Age of what's "in" and "out" for 1987, Hulk Hogan is "out".

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Great stuff there. Interesting use of the word "holocaust" by Dave there.

[Betty Houle 0]

Good call Dave on WM 3 not being financially successful. And nice to see Dave has always hated Gorilla Monsoon

It was by no means a guarantee that WM 3 was going to be financial success.

 

 

It's still funny to read this in hindsight.

[FroGG_NeaL 0]

this shit is great.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Thank you very much for all of this!

[CheesalaIsGood 0]

WWE 24/7 has alot of content from right around this period too. Good timing.

[strummer 0]

Christ, Hogan v Kamala did phenominal business

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

Christ, Hogan v (insert name here) did phenominal business

[MillenniumMan831 0]

As for the Monsoon/Ladd/JV team that did the 1st batch of Challenges in 9/86, let me assure you, Ladd was beyond HORRIBLE! He couldn't start a sentence without the phrase "Without a shadow of a doubt" or "Without a question of a doubt". Twas fuckin annoying.

 

On the flip side, it was a little difficult watching Monsoon during the New Generation Era putting over Champion Diesel, heel Tatanka, Bundy, ect. Plus, he would just yell a lot more from late 1993-95 (probably on advice from the office to show more enthusiasm).

 

That said I have an eBay bid on Monsoon's WWE announcing figure.

 

And I saw a tidbit about The Gladiator (Ricky Hunter). Who did he blow to keep his job? He was by far the clumsiest jobber I've ever seen in the mid-late 1980s. I mean, I know he's a 'veteran', but geezus, the guy couldn't even hit the ropes without nearly falling down.

[Timmy8271 0]

Good stuff man. After doing the torch notes on another board, i know how hard this is to type.

[snuffbox 0]

Definitly the best active thread here right now...keep it up.

[tpww7 0]

Awesome thread, keep it goin!

[Team Angle Pusher 0]

Funny that there were talks about filling up the 'Mania card with mid-level wrestlers, including Scott Hall.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

I've been watching Primetime's from this era on 24/7, it's odd to hear Gorilla promote Mania 3 as possibly having "15 to 20 matches".

 

Gorilla Monsoon and Johnny Polo were a decent announce team (based on what I heard on the Cage match DVD) but not as good as Gorilla and Jessie or Heenan. But yeah, when Gorilla was left to his own devices without a good heel foil - like the 1994 Challenge team of him and Ross - not good.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Totally agreed, even Monsoon and DiBiase was alright (mostly w/ Monsoon mocking DiBiase's corporate team members) but him and Ross were death.

[Bruiser Chong 0]

God, I wish we had WWF 24/7.

[Dobbs 3K 0]

A Gorlla Monsoon & Jim Ross announcing team must've been the height of hyperbole (granted JR was much better back then).

 

Gorilla did decline as an announcer towards the end of his run, but look at the slugs he had to put over. '93-'95 WWF was probably my least favorite couple years in WWF/WWE history. Just some abysmal characters and bad booking.

[Jericholic82 0]

"According to Advertising Age of what's "in" and "out" for 1987, Hulk Hogan is "out"."

 

BAHHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Bruiser Chong 0]

I wouldn't argue a whole lot with that. While it's true he's remained a force in some capacity to this day, it can still be argued his hottest run were those first few years as WWF champion. I'd mark 1988 as when he became more stagnant and the buzz started to die down on him in comparison to the first several years of Hulkamania.

[snuffbox 0]

Didn't WM5 draw a really big buyrate though?

[Bruiser Chong 0]

You had a main event that was a year in the making. I wasn't suggesting Hogan wasn't a draw after 1987, but his popularity in 1985 to say, 1989, can't be compared.

[Hawk 34 0]

Didn't WM5 draw a really big buyrate though?

 

There is a difference between drawing a fantastic buyrate for a storyline that was superb in execution during the very peak of that period and being a trend in mainstream two years prior. It just meant that Hogan wasn't the cool thing anymore. It doesn't negate his popularity, appeal and importance to the wrestling demographic but rather just his market appeal. (Hence it coming from Advertising Age).

[tapout 0]

What I don't understand is why Monsoon gets bashed while Gordon Solie gets praised, Solie was quite possibly the single most boring, emotionless, robotic announcer I've ever heard. He showed absolutely no ehthusiasm in anything he said. I remember watching a tape where Dusty Rhodes won the title, and you wouldn't even know if you didn't listen closely. He sounded like he had just watched Steve Lombardi wrestle Len Denton.

Funny as hell and also true. I thought Monsoon was great even more so playing of Heenan.

[landy1987 0]

Here's the next set of notes:

 

2/9/87:

 

News from the TV tapings on 1/26 and 1/27 for shows that will play the weekends of Feb. 7-14-21 with several major angles shot - in the big one, Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart won the tag straps from Dynamite Kid & Davey Boy Smith on the first hour of the Tampa taping. Dynamite, who has been in traction for the past month, was flown down and literally had to be carried, piggy-back, to the ring (I believe the camera started filming with Kid & Smith already at the ring). I believe he was knocked off the apron at the start and never got back up. Hey ended up pinning Davey Boy after the bearhug clothesline finisher although ref Danny Davis missed several of Smith's pin attempts while tending to Dynamite on the floor. Obviously Hart & Neidhart are just interim champs because Titan is going to put their eggs in the Rick Martel & Tom Zenk basket toward the end of March--maybe sooner.

 

The Danny Davis heel referee skit came to its climatic end during that same taping. A ref was in the ring during a Tito Santana squash match. Davis then came out and tried to interject himself and WWF figurehead president Jack Tunney comes out and winds up firing Davis as an official. Later in the taping, I believe in the third hour, Hart & Neidhart are defending against the Islanders, when before the match; Jimmy Hart introduces Davis, in wrestling trunks, as the newest member of the Hart Foundation. Davis then gets involved in the outcome, pushing Tonga Kid (Tama) off the top ropes ala the Col. DeBeers-Jimmy Snuka angle and he crashed to the floor and lost the match.

 

The Piper's Pits all revolved around building heat for the Andre the Giant-Hulk Hogan match at "Restholdmania III”. It's all official right now, Andre is a heel, advised by Heenan, and Hogan wound up accepting his challenge for the title match after an incident where Hogan bleeds.

 

Probably the most significant news from the Titan side, however, is that after WrestleMania, Hulk Hogan will be working very few dates the remainder of the year. Seems Titan is coming out with a Hulk Hogan movie and the filming will leave his royal highness with very little time for wrestling. The fact they are doing a movie about this self-constructed legend should hopefully end all rumors of his dropping the strap this year. With Hogan on the shelf, for, the most part, Titan is going to have to put more emphasis on its other babyfaces, which means Jim Duggan is coming along at exactly the right time. Roddy Piper hasn't worked out (don't think for a moment that he's really going to retire); Ricky Steamboat is actually drawing very well right now against Randy Savage, but that's more because of the angle and obviously the Martel-Zenk dup is headed for a major push, but none are the big kick-ass types. Duggan has the type of character that can get over, although nobody is about to be able to draw the kind of crowds Hogan has been drawing. Speaking of Hogan, the Gold Bond Ice Cream Company, which does Oreo cookies and Eskimo Pies, will be coming out with a Hulk Hogan Superstar of Wrestling Bar in late March.

 

Neidhart was indicted in the airline incident this past Thursday. He'll probably have to stand trial shortly after WrestleMania unless his plea bargains. Unless there is some sort of guarantee that Neidhart won't serve any time, you can be certain Hart & Neidhart will drop the straps to Martel & Zenk before the case comes up, which may mean they can't wait for the big show.

 

So, about two months out, here is what WrestleMania appears to be boiling down to: Andre vs. Hogan, Savage vs. Steamboat, JYD vs. Race, Piper vs. Adonis, Hernandez vs. Haynes and Duggan vs. Kamala. Rumors still abound about Vince McMahon actually wrestling, but I won't believe it until it's confirmed. A Minneapolis TV station reported this past week that McMahon would wrestle Jesse Ventura on the big show… I believe a tag match will be either Martel-Zenk winning from the Hart Foundation--or something to the effect of the Bulldogs or Martel-Zenk teaming with Santana against Hart-Neidhart-Danny Davis. As mentioned here last week, the entire card will be held live at the Silverdome in Pontiac, Michigan, where Titan is hoping to set a North American attendance record (they've got 85,000 seats to fill). I'm not sure if they can draw more than 70,000 to break the record set in Toronto, although I'm certain they'll smash the Toronto gate record of $800,000 U.S.

 

More news from the TV tapings--Barry Darsow (Krusher Krushchev) was in at the Florida tapings teaming with Bill Eadie (Masked Superstar) as the Demolition tag team, so apparently Randy Culley will go back to being a Moondoggie… The next tapings are 2/16 and 2/17 in New England. 2/17 is in Springfield, Mass. And I have no idea where the second one is. The following tapes will be 3/10 and 3/11 in Ohio--one of the tapes is in Columbus. The 1/19 show at MSG drew a whopping $265,440 gate for the Hogan-Kamala match…The New York State Athletic Commission has joined the Ontario SPCA in banning Jake Roberts' snake from the act… I'm still certain Jake will be turning babyface, just don't know how soon it will happen. He's working against heels as much as babyfaces these days anyway… 2/1 in Toronto drew 10,000 as Ricky Steamboat & George Steele downed Randy Savage & Honkytonk Man in the main event when Steamboat pinned Savage after a leap off the ropes… On 2/15 in Toronto, head-to-head with the NWA debut in Hamilton, they've got Piper's supposed final match ever in Toronto against Adonis, plus Steamboat vs. Savage, JYD vs. Race, Hart Foundation defends against Blair-Brunzell and prelims… I've come to the conclusion the reason Piper's matches aren't drawing has more to do with Piper's foes. Don Muraco and Bob Orton had no heat, and people simply don't want to see Adonis. Even the Hogan-Adonis matches drew relatively poor crowds, and if Hulk can't draw sellouts with someone, that same person surely can't draw anything headlining against the likes of Piper or Steamboat… 1/23 in San Francisco drew 7,500 ($95,000) where Savage beat Steamboat via DQ in 10:00, Jake Roberts double count-out Paul Orndorff in a very bad match, and Martel-Zenk beat Valentine-Beefcake in what was described as the worst final match on a Bay Area card since the now legendary Sgt. Slaughter-John Nord fiasco last year… 1/31 in St. Louis drew 6,271 ($56,000) which is pretty impressive since the Flair-Windham match the night before drew less than 2,000. Results saw Roberts beat Piper via count out when Adonis interfered, Steamboat DDQ Savage when Piper and Adonis both interfered, Martel-Zenk beat Valentine-beefcake in a good match; Santana drew Orndorff over 20:00 in a very good match plus prelims. Next show is 2/28 with the same 6 man elimination tag as in MSG plus Bundy vs. Kamala, Duggan vs. Sharpe, Haynes vs. Hernandez and Orton vs. Slater… Duggan debuts at the next TV tapings and will feud with Kamala and get a heavy push… Titan's advance for the 2/14 show at the Philadelphia Spectrum (Hogan vs. Kamala and Savage vs. Steamboat) passed $100,000 this weekend Crockett's advance for 2/21 in the same city is $36,000 as of this weekend… On Twin Cities TV when Hogan was welcoming his buddy Rheingans to the WWF, Hulk said something to the effect that Brad now no longer has to waste his time beating up wimps and that he (Hulk) had to run Brad's face in the mat to get his head on straight… Savage and Steamboat drew a $48,000 gate in Augusta, GA on 1/19 which is pretty impressive since that's a lot more than Crockett has been averaging at the Omni.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Obviously Hart & Neidhart are just interim champs because Titan is going to put their eggs in the Rick Martel & Tom Zenk basket toward the end of March--maybe sooner.

 

The Hart Foundation did drop the belts to Rick Martel & Tito Santana, in late October.

 

Roddy Piper hasn't worked out (don't think for a moment that he's really going to retire)

 

It lasted two years.

 

I'm not sure if they can draw more than 70,000 to break the record set in Toronto, although I'm certain they'll smash the Toronto gate record of $800,000 U.S.

 

You know, all this in retrospect, it's kind of sad to hear the constant protests that Wrestlemania III only drew 78,000 fans.

 

Good stuff. Please post the review of WM III when it gets that far.

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Thanks again for the writeup.

[strummer 0]

I can't imagine Vince McMahon in a wrestling match in 1987. It's unreal that was on the books until a couple months before the show. Vince in 87 was a pretty dorky announcer who had no credibility as a tough guy and he was going to work Jesse ventura?