Shawn Michaels/Batista Program

[claydude14 0]

I definitely think they should slow burn his heel turn, setting up Batista/Cena for Mania next year. I'm not sure who I would have entering Mania as champion for that match though.

[Dandy 0]

Which belt would you have them going for, and would you have one of them change shows to feud over that belt? Interesting scenario.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I don't know where this Shawn/Batista feud is going but they better watch out or the fans will start to see Shawn as pathetic.

 

I think the idea is that we're supposed to feel sorry for him because he had to beat his idol but it could turn into him getting heel heat.

 

At least it's a fresh program and Batista finally has an actual storyline other than getting random title shot after title shot.

 

well based off Raw, I would think Batista is the heel. The fans are suppose to feel bad for Shawn for doing what he did. That and the fact when Shawn came out to hug Flair, the camera was focused on Batista.

 

I guess they wanted to point out Batista's anger at Shawn. That was the only angle I could see based off the ending to Raw. One would think Orton could seek out revenge seeing that he was wiping away tears when the roster came out.

 

Regardless of who is *supposed* to be face or heel, it's going to be fascinating watching which side the crowd is on. This is really a unique and never before seen angle in the wwe that I can recall. (I don't have nearly as good as memory as many of you do about past storylines though). But to me it seems new and in wrestling where every angle or story line has been done over and over and over, you just change the details a little, it's great when you have something really unique and different. I hope they do this right because if they do it can be good I think.

 

I also think it is brilliant to piggyback off a finished angle. You rarely get that type of sequential storytelling from the WWE. Not only that, it is somewhat logical storytelling where the end of one feud has an impact on the beginning of another. That there are consequences for winning and losing, that other wrestlers' losses affects others in either positive or negative ways. It's akin to watching a television show where the conclusion of one arc bleeds into another (A very Whedonesque method of season advancement).

 

[Dandy 0]

That same thing pretty much happened when Funk attacked Flair right after his match with Steamboat. They had Funk be a judge at ringside, and that was why the table was there to be used on Flair. Brilliant booking...I loved that.

[The Truthiness 0]

 

 

I also think it is brilliant to piggyback off a finished angle. You rarely get that type of sequential storytelling from the WWE. Not only that, it is somewhat logical storytelling where the end of one feud has an impact on the beginning of another. That there are consequences for winning and losing, that other wrestlers' losses affects others in either positive or negative ways. It's akin to watching a television show where the conclusion of one arc bleeds into another (A very Whedonesque method of season advancement).

 

This make sense, and you don't have to use Flair getting crushed by Batista to make it effective. Use it as a "piggyback" to start a feud, than turn it in to something personal between Batista and Michaels.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I also think it is brilliant to piggyback off a finished angle. You rarely get that type of sequential storytelling from the WWE. Not only that, it is somewhat logical storytelling where the end of one feud has an impact on the beginning of another. That there are consequences for winning and losing, that other wrestlers' losses affects others in either positive or negative ways. It's akin to watching a television show where the conclusion of one arc bleeds into another (A very Whedonesque method of season advancement).

 

That's a fantastic way of describing it. Out of everything that's going on in the company right now, I'm most interested in what they do with Shawn and Batista. I don't care if they're both main eventers or on different shows or this other nonsense that is being used to downplay a potential feud. I want to see what happens because we need a logical conclusion to what was started in the Flair storyline.

 

Shawn retired Batista's friend and mentor and Batista is pissed about it. The question of what he will do next makes for compelling television. This is simple booking, and it's a storyline that should engage people. Or at least that's my feeling.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

One problem I have with what is otherwise a great storyline in theory is who should go over in the end? If Shawn wins, then what? If Batista wins, then what? You can sympathize with both sides, and yet you can vilify both sides as well. It might get a bit too sophisticated for the usual WWE fanbase. (Not that I personally find anything wrong with that, but it might not get over as well as one might think, beyond "Main eventer vs Main eventer of different brands" appeal)

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I also think it is brilliant to piggyback off a finished angle. You rarely get that type of sequential storytelling from the WWE. Not only that, it is somewhat logical storytelling where the end of one feud has an impact on the beginning of another. That there are consequences for winning and losing, that other wrestlers' losses affects others in either positive or negative ways. It's akin to watching a television show where the conclusion of one arc bleeds into another (A very Whedonesque method of season advancement).

 

This make sense, and you don't have to use Flair getting crushed by Batista to make it effective. Use it as a "piggyback" to start a feud, than turn it in to something personal between Batista and Michaels.

 

 

But you kind of do have to bring Flair in. Batista and Shawn are going to feud because Batista wants to stand up for Flair and punish Shawn for retiring his friend and mentor. If Batista takes things too far, it is logical that Flair will have to do or say something down the road. That's the logical conclusion. In storyline terms, Flair has already forgiven Shawn for defeating him, but Batista hasn't. There's conflict there and that's what's going to sell this feud should they see it as something long-term.

[The Truthiness 0]

 

 

 

But you kind of do have to bring Flair in. Batista and Shawn are going to feud because Batista wants to stand up for Flair and punish Shawn for retiring his friend and mentor. If Batista takes things too far, it is logical that Flair will have to do or say something down the road. That's the logical conclusion. In storyline terms, Flair has already forgiven Shawn for defeating him, but Batista hasn't. There's conflict there and that's what's going to sell this feud should they see it as something long-term.

 

Or after Shawn goes over Batista in a face vs. face match, you could just have Batista destroy Shawn the next night or after the match. His reasoning could be he thinks Shawn's is an egotistical prick and has always thought so. The Flair thing just made him finally speak out about it, than Shawn beating him sends him over the edge. Now he is just obsessed with destroying Michaels, retiring Flair pissed him off, but losing to HBK himself, was a massive blow to his ego.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Using Flair merely as a device to turn Dave heel is bad. It's a heel turn for a sake of heel turn. Using Flair, and Dave turning on him, as a representation of the feud between Shawn and Batista being taken to another level -beyond "you retired my mentor"- is another thing altogether. That something, in between the beginning of the feud and the turn, was enough to get Batista to go against the values he held at the start. If Batista vs. Michaels is to have legs, it does have to move beyond the impetus which made it. It has to evolve. Bret Hart and Steve Austin, for example, used something similar. Where Steve pushed Bret so far that he went against the values he preached.

 

The logical thing to do, given Daves motivation and the premise of the feud, is to have Flair show up and either spur him on or try to get him to stop. Because it's not like Shawn killed Flair and Batista is out for blood. Flair is still alive and kicking and has a POV in the matter. Fans would be wondering why Flair doesn't involve himself if Batista was truly his protege.

 

Flair isn't done yet in professonal wrestling. Don't get stuck on the idea that the past week was his last dance. How and when and where he is used is the only question. The Why is simple.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

If Batista/Shawn is a one or two month post-Mania feud to keep two main eventers busy, then no, there is no need for Flair. However, if you go down the path of a blood feud between the two, with one guy eventually going heel, it necessitates the involvement of the man responsible for it all.

 

I envision a several month feud between the two that eventually evolves to the point where one of the guys gets out of hand... takes things too far. Logically, Flair has to show up. He can't sit idly by while two of his best friends fight over him. Then you do the Batista turn or what have you.

 

We know WWE and how they do things, but I think they have six months worth of material here if they work it right. They could even logically transition the thing to HHH/Batista and have next year's Mania main event in the bag.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

With how most people are talking about Batista moving on to guys like HHH or Cena, I guess that means most of you think Batista should go over Shawn in the end?

[cd213 0]

A slow burn, as some have said can work if done right. After this week, and Batista calling out Michaels for retiring his mentor, don't have them interact for a while. Batista can continue his feud with Umaga, and Michaels can do his thing. Meanwhile, Michaels can have it in the back of his mind that he retired Flair. Michaels goes on a losing streak. After a month or so, have Batista re-confront Michaels and taunt him some more about retiring Flair and about the losing streak. During a Batista match Michael can interfere setting up their feud after Michaels has had enough of Batista talking smack about him. If there is going to be a Flair interaction, it can be a good time to bring up Reid Flair (although, I don't know how far along he is in his training).

[The Niggardly King 0]

Flair has already stated he's going to be back, but not in-ring. So, expect a new commentator or whenever they need a "fresh" face authority figure;

[garfieldsnose 0]

He's going to be doing PR work for the company.

[A Happy Medium 0]

I've been reading your posts, and I'm quite interested in where this could lead. However, there is one thing that makes me doubt this angle can be given it's slow burn. Batista is terribly injury-prone. I don't know if his body can stand up to a blood feud that lasts up to six months.

[Guest tom cody]

I think this could be a really good feud. If they turn either guy heel, I'm hoping it's Shawn Michaels. Heel Michaels would be fresh.

[bob_barron 0]

I don't see the issue in having Flair be a part of future storylines or even having phsycial encounters. Was it wrong to have Orton punk out Harley Race? What about Edge beating up Michael Hayes? As far as I know, Flair's still under contract and it doesn't hurt anyone to have him around to help sell the product. It's not like he has to get in the ring to sell a storyline split from Batista.

 

Hayes and Race have been retired for years. Flair retired on Sunday. Huge difference.

 

Flair should stay for several months at the earliest. And having Flair be beaten down in Charlotte is what WCW used to do all the time, it doesn't end well

[Wally Balls 0]

First off...Thanks Cheech, or whomever it was that let me back.

 

Second, I have no problem with the Batista/HBK angle, although I think it's not a good idea to get Flair himself involved in the angle. I think after his send-off on Monday, it should be a while before we see Flair on TV again, just so nostalgia has a chance to kick in and we can appriciate his appearance more.

 

I'm not so sure they'll try to turn either guy right away. They might just let the fans make up their own minds on this one as both guys are over as faces (although I'm hearing more and more boo's for Batista). I'm not going to expect any great promo wars here to make the story more dramatic. I think with an angle like this, it would have been better for a guy that can hang with HBK on the mic to be involved, rather than Batista.

[Promoter 0]

Batista's coming off like the heel to me in this. If Flair accepts the retirement why is Batista angry at HBK? HHH isn't even pissed at HBK and we know how HHH/Flair are. Vince Mcmahon was the one who forced Flair's retirement. Batista is stale as hell and turning heel will help him. I don't think Flair should get involved. It will make Batista look more like a sour grapes character if Flair doesn't show up to talk to him. He'll come off like an opportunist.

[Hawk 34 0]

Which belt would you have them going for, and would you have one of them change shows to feud over that belt? Interesting scenario.

 

If this match goes down next year and I've been a supporter of this idea for awhile, I think it shouldn't be centered around a championship match. I think this match should be big enough to sell on its own. This would also allow for two other big title main events likely one would be Edge/HHH for the World Championship and perhaps Orton defending the WWE Title once again against someone else, perhaps CM Punk or some other elevated face. You throw in a UT/Shawn match which should be a given for next year, I think that gives WWE a pretty good series of main event matches.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Thought HHH didn't work Tuesdays? On a serious note, Edge doesn't want to work with HHH, and you'd be doing him a disservice pairing him up with someone he genuinely dislikes.

[cabbageboy 0]

I think this could be a tremendous feud and Batista's promo work on SD was some of his best to date. Completely agree with the notion that there are consequences to winning and losing matches, that long term (or even short term) history should be a driving force in storylines. It's also the proper way to do shades of gray, with both guys having valid points and fans can feasibly root on both men. Too often with shades of gray booking does the angle portray both men in a negative light, showing us what not to like about these guys.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

I was pretty excited watching the segment on SD (Nice to see Michaels make rare appearances on the show). Batista BADLY needs to turn heel to refreshen his character although I think if a match is going to be booked for Backlash, I would assume Batista would win seeing how Shawn beat him the last time they wrestled.

[haVoc 0]

I don't like Batista breaking kayfabe. You can run with Shawn having an ego, but why would Shawn Michaels want to job? I hate when they do that. They're exposing it's a work, yet want us to invest into the storyline as being real. From a fans point of view why would HBK ever want to lose or lay down?

 

At least when Triple H breaks kayfabe it's funny off hand shoot comments that go over most fans heads.

[King Cucaracha 0]

If Batista turns heel, he really has to go over ultimately. As a face he's basically hit the wall after months of title shots without much success. So, if they do turn him heel, he pretty much has to win his first feud to re-establish himself. Turning him heel and having him lose to anyone in his first big grudge match is a backwards move. After Shawn, odds are he'll be back after Taker on Smackdown or after HHH or Cena on RAW. He needs a win going into either of them.

 

Shawn's at the point in most fans minds where a loss isn't going to hurt him. Especially if it's to someone like Batista.

 

 

As far as Flair goes, I've got no problem with him being involved for one backstage segment of some sort, just something to re-inforce what they're fighting for. He really doesn't need to be an integral part of the feud in person, his name alone'll carry whatever Batista and Michaels can't, which should be most of it let's be fair. The moment he comes out in front of a live crowd on TV again is going to be a big one (and inevitable). The closer they do it to the send-off, the more shine it takes off that moment.

[Darth Pipes 0]

Like I said in the Raw thread, this really is going to leave a taste in my mouth like them using Eddie to help Rey. They should have just had the big celebration for Flair and next week it would be business as usual, but no, just because it was Shawn Michaels that did it they have to create a storyline out of it.

 

It hurts the retirement in general when it became a storyline with Vince, but now they are doing something with it after he is gone to do what, exactly? Make Batista a heel? There are plenty of other ways they could do that without bringing Flair into it. I guess it keeps Batista out of the title picture for a while, but they could have continued a story with Umaga a little bit if they would have wanted to.

 

The only storyline I really have always been hoping for them to do but they have never really went full-tilt with using it is Raw vs. Smackdown (and ECW or vs. ECW). Yes, they play up "brand supremacy" every once in a while but it needs to get down and dirty and actually mean something. I'd rather have some fabricated brand competition over no competition any day. I want to see them get creative with it. A silly spring-time draft, a possible match at SurSer and a match at WM doesn't exactly scream to me that one brand is better than the other. The constant moving around of wrestlers from brand to brand just for one quick match here and there doesn't make sense either unless it's an ECW guy doing an SD match or vice versa cause of their "joining forces"

 

You see, I don't mind them using someone's retirement as a storyline. It's not even the same thing as exploiting a real-life death. Flair's gone storyline-wise (and not dead thankfully) but the reverberations continue to be felt.

 

I thought the Batista/Michaels segment was great, save for Batista's diamond earrings and Michaels stupid hat. That being said...Batista doesn't have much of a leg to stand on. Flair asked Michaels to give him all he had and even if he had laid down for Flair, the next guy might not do that. Flair could have won only to lose the next night on Raw. Flair's career was living on borrowed time so it's really pointless to get angry with someone for retiring him.

[Guest frostdude1]

I just don't understand this feud. I mean why would Batista want HBK to job to Flair ?

[Hawk 34 0]

Ric Flair was a close friend and mentor to Batista. Batista didn't want to see his close friend be forced to go home, thus, he feels Shawn should have laid down for Flair at WM. This has been a fairly well crafted angle at this point and I only hope they don't get too out of hand with it.

[Matt Young 0]

Batista's promo on Smackdown was pretty heelish. If I were booking this angle, I'd have Shawn go over at Backlash in a quick surprise win, possibly reusing the finish from their Armageddon 2003 match with Shawn reversing the batista Bomb into the SCM.

 

Either after the match or later on Raw/SD (probably the latter) Batista would go full heel on Shawn. Batista would win a rematch at Judgment Day, with the blowoff being Hell in a Cell at One Night Stand.