EliteXC: Heat

[Lord of The Curry 0]

It's really fun watching Arlovski "flip the switch", so to speak. That dude has some of the best flurries around. I can't see what Nelson was complaining about in regards to the stoppage. He would've taken another shot or two from on top and been 100% out cold.

 

This was a fun show, much better then the Ultimate Fight Night and I'd even go as far as to say, minus Chuck getting dusted more fun then UFC 88. 4 good finishes and some good drama during the Arlovski and Shields fights with a WTF main event. Good thing Petruzelli is from Florida.

 

And Kimbo just walking away from Gus Johnson had me dying.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Also Jake Shields would get eaten alive by GSP. No question.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

I really want to see Daley go to 160 in Elite XC, or go to the UFC at 155...

 

He would be a good asset to those divisions as he wouldn't be undersized like he was against Jake.

 

KOAB problay wanted to off himself last night because of Kimbo.

[The Niggardly King 0]

Could you please explain why I would wish to kill myself over this? Is it because I think there has to be a significant secondary promotion in MMA? This would make me a Kimbo fanboy?

 

Or is it because I don't get a boner over watching two no-name value fighters having a good fight that means nothing to MMA, business, or general interest? Like most MMA fans?

 

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

Could you please explain why I would wish to kill myself over this? Is it because I think there has to be a significant secondary promotion in MMA? This would make me a Kimbo fanboy?

 

Or is it because I don't get a boner over watching two no-name value fighters having a good fight that means nothing to MMA, business, or general interest? Like most MMA fans?

 

What are you, Hawk52's twin?

[Lord of The Curry 0]

Haha

[The Niggardly King 0]

So good it needed to be used twice.

[Lord of The Curry 0]

To be a fly on the wall of wherever Dana was watching Kimbo go down off a jab.

[The Niggardly King 0]

KOAB problay wanted to off himself last night because of Kimbo.

 

Actually my first thought was when did EliteXC sign Houston Alexander, followed by laughter.

[Lt. Al Giardello 0]

KOAB problay wanted to off himself last night because of Kimbo.

 

Actually my first thought was when did EliteXC sign Houston Alexander, followed by laughter.

 

Kimbo couldn't even carry Houston's jockstrap... Atleast Houston beat legit competition.

[AlwaysPissedOff 0]

Did anybody else see Gary Shaw's kid jump up and start yelling his head off when they showed the replay of Kimbo getting his ass beat? Shit was hilarious.

 

Also, Jake Shields can't be serious in thinking he could hang with GSP. That's like state-sanctioned murder right there.

[Matt Young 0]

Who in the world sanctioned this fight? This is why wrestling wins. You would never put the franchise up against an unknown fighter.

 

I thought wrestling "won" because, due to its predetermined nature, the business is more likely and capable of producing entertaining, competitive matchups as opposed to cards full of boring crap. That's why I prefer wrestling, even though I enjoy both.

 

That's not to say the EliteXC show was boring crap, but rather that I have seen MMA shows that were. Happens in wrestling, too, though. Not trying to knock the sport at all. Last night's show was actually really entertaining aside from the main event.

 

Oh yeah- I know I'm a noob, but I had no idea that Gina Carano was a fighter. I just knew she was on American Gladiators due to BL's signature. She's quite the fighter... and fucking gorgeous.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Also, Jake Shields can't be serious in thinking he could hang with GSP. That's like state-sanctioned murder right there.

 

Just typical stuff where the company that's not #1 calls out the company that us. Any notice that the UFC gives EXC or any of their fighters only does favors for the competition.

 

I like Jake Shields, but he would get all kinds of raped if he fought George

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Or is it because I don't get a boner over watching two no-name value fighters having a good fight that means nothing to MMA, business, or general interest? Like most MMA fans?

 

You're a dumbass. Using this logic, you'd be much happier watching Danny Bonaduce knock out one of the Olsen twins in celebrity boxing than watching Edgar vs. Griffin from UFC 67.

 

Most MMA fans like watching good fights, and don't give a shit about business or general interest. A good fight means plenty to MMA, and is good for business. Bonnar and Griffin were no name fighters who had an action packed fight that helped lift the UFC up to where we are today. That's what happens when you build legitimate fighters. Urijah Faber was a no-name fighter not too long ago, and now he's slowly becoming a star because he's whooping ass, not because he's a big scary looking nigger with fights on the internet. I would like proof that most MMA fans care about business, or "general interest" whatever that means. I would argue in the first place that if you're not interested in watching solid, competitive fighting than you're not a fan.

 

I can assure you that trying to cater to the freakshow demographic is not a sustainable business strategy. All these internet retards that talk about "ITS GOOD FOR BUSINESSSS~!!!!" don't understand how fucking stupid it is to base your company around a fucking street fighter with no ground training. If it's such a great business, why did it blow up in their face? Horrible business move, and I don't applaud charlatans like Gary Shaw who manipulate the stupidity of the general public (people like you, apparently) and try to legitimize Bob Sapp v0.1 (at least Bob Sapp hung in there with some decent comp) vs. a WWF Intercontinental champion (because no matter how you spin it, Shamrock's popularity has always been tied into the fact that he was a rassler). I'm sure that things are going real well for EliteXC right now, and that they're not having any problems behind the scenes WHATSOEVER

[The Niggardly King 0]

Hey hey hey... no N bombs just because of one dumb fuck's opinion.

[Mik 0]

Yeah... let's please try not to do that.

[Mik 0]

Oh, also... this:

 

http://deadspin.com/5059233/meet-the-man-who-felled-kimbo

[HollywoodSpikeJenkins 0]

He's gay. So?

[Scroby 0]

No Warlord still wrestled as of 2-3 years ago.

 

That is great news.

 

To the fight, I SAY G!@DAMN!! That last right hand was murderous.

Warlord wrestled at the Cow Palace in Oct of 2007. He teamed up with the Barbarian. He's a big motherfucking dude.

[Hawkius Maximus 0]

Or is it because I don't get a boner over watching two no-name value fighters having a good fight that means nothing to MMA, business, or general interest? Like most MMA fans?

 

You're a dumbass. Using this logic, you'd be much happier watching Danny Bonaduce knock out one of the Olsen twins in celebrity boxing than watching Edgar vs. Griffin from UFC 67.

 

Most MMA fans like watching good fights, and don't give a shit about business or general interest. A good fight means plenty to MMA, and is good for business. Bonnar and Griffin were no name fighters who had an action packed fight that helped lift the UFC up to where we are today. That's what happens when you build legitimate fighters. Urijah Faber was a no-name fighter not too long ago, and now he's slowly becoming a star because he's whooping ass, not because he's a big scary looking nigger with fights on the internet. I would like proof that most MMA fans care about business, or "general interest" whatever that means. I would argue in the first place that if you're not interested in watching solid, competitive fighting than you're not a fan.

 

I can assure you that trying to cater to the freakshow demographic is not a sustainable business strategy. All these internet retards that talk about "ITS GOOD FOR BUSINESSSS~!!!!" don't understand how fucking stupid it is to base your company around a fucking street fighter with no ground training. If it's such a great business, why did it blow up in their face? Horrible business move, and I don't applaud charlatans like Gary Shaw who manipulate the stupidity of the general public (people like you, apparently) and try to legitimize Bob Sapp v0.1 (at least Bob Sapp hung in there with some decent comp) vs. a WWF Intercontinental champion (because no matter how you spin it, Shamrock's popularity has always been tied into the fact that he was a rassler). I'm sure that things are going real well for EliteXC right now, and that they're not having any problems behind the scenes WHATSOEVER

 

I haven't done this in years. I'm going to systematically break down your "post" and show how big of a retard you are.

 

Point #1: "I would rather watch Celebrity Boxing then watch Griffin vs. Edgar"

- No, not really. If anything, the sheer lack of size of those two entertains me. Plus, while I'm sure the Olsen Twins and Bonaduce would have more charisma, it still doesn't change the fact that the Olsens are kind of fugly.

 

Point #2: "Forrest and Bonnar weren't stars when they first fought so therefore that means fans like action over star power because their stars now!"

- Dumb idea here. That was the *FIRST LIVE SPECIAL IN THE HISTORY OF MMA ON TELEVISION*. Need I repeat that? Okay, I will. IT WAS THE FIRST LIVE SPECIAL IN THE HISTORY OF MMA ON TELEVISION. It was also main evented by KEN SHAMROCK and up and coming star RICH FRANKLIN. It also had a reality show behind it full of *whacky* characters who all got interest not because of their fighting, but because of their characters. Diego catching LIGHTNING anyone? Leben pissing on other people's beds? LEBEN IN GENERAL? The only reason Forrest/Bonnar 1 has reached mythical standings is because it was a good fight, the first of such on LIVE TELEVISION, and both were insanely charismatic and entertaining. You throw two uncharimatic fucks in that situation? No buys. Diego Sanchez murdering Florian didn't help him immediately, did it?

 

Point #2: "Urijah Faber is a star for beating people now! This proves that you get over just by winning!"

- No. Well, it's not fair to say that since we have no idea what he can do...but ONE drawing fight with Pulver who had UFC exposure, a reality show, and a personality behind him does NOT mean Faber is a draw. Jens Pulver drew that rating through PR work, promos, and Versus's great advertising campaign. None of that has *ANYTHING* to do with Faber other then being the young pretty guy who beat on Pulver. Faber's next title defense will be the litmus test to see if he can draw on his own. The last WEC show didn't draw even half as well as that show did, so it sure as *fuck* didn't make WEC more popular. Outside of Faber, I dare you to name me *one fighter* who became a draw just by winning and not PR, charisma, or attitude. You won't be able to do it. Because there are none. And no, Fedor never drew in Japan himself, nor in America. Thought I'd cut you off on that.

 

Point #3: "You're not a real fan if you don't like fighting!"

- I never said people didn't like fighting. I never said I didn't. What you, and seemingly every other smart ass in here seems to not realize is that fighting is a BUSINESS. Whatever will draw you money, you run with it. Two no-name fighters having a great fight means *NOTHING*. Sure, it may be fun to watch, but it's still going to draw maybe 2,000 fans no matter where you run in the world. Japan? Maybe less now. US? Yeah, using "WE'VE JUST GOT GOOD FIGHTERS NO BS HERE~!" worked for IFL didn't it? UFC sells itself as a hybrid between the two. Great fighting, and great build up. The only thing they lack is PRIDE-like theatrics. Dana White enjoys a good fight. He enjoys money more.

 

Point #4: "Freakshows do not draw"

- Bullshit. It's always drawn well when there's freakshows with interest. IN ANY MARKET. If not, Tank Abbott wouldn't have been half as popular. BROCK LESNAR WOULD NOT BE GETTING A UFC TITLE SHOT NEXT MONTH. The fact is, Ken Shamrock versus Kimbo Slice was a brilliant move that would have most likely saved Elite XC. What they didn't count on was Ken Shamrock's stupidity. You're a idiot if you think a FREAK ACCIDENT somehow proves that the business model with Kimbo was a failure. Was it in the end? *YES*, but not because of what Elite XC tried to do. Kimbo would have lost to someone. Hell, he might have lost to Ken Shamrock, but in the end under perfect circumstances Elite XC would have been able to market and control who he lost to. The only reason Kimbo fought *AT ALL* was to save this show. Dave Meltzer even reported that they gave him money to fight since he didn't want to. Elite XC shot themselves in the face to try and get somewhere. Know where their next big step is? Gina Carano vs. Cyborg. That should be more then enough to appease you "I WANTZ HOT FIGHT ACTION" people.

 

Point #5: "Ken Shamrock's popularity is based off being a pro-wrestler!"

- Historically untrue. Shamrock wasn't even known as a Pro-Wrestler in America when he was the TOP DRAW of the UFC in the early 90's. But let's play devil advocate. So what? So is Brock Lesnar's right now. So was Takada. So was Sakuraba (initially at least). So was Don Frye in Japan. THEY ALL DREW MONEY. What is your point? None. This is elitist "Pro-Wrestling is gayzors" talking.

 

And in summary.

 

A good fight is a good fight. But without PR, without charisma, without INTEREST generated from *OUTSIDE OF THE FIGHT* then it means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Fighter A winning a fight against Fighter B does NOT MEAN he will draw against fighter C. That's just basic principle. A good fight is disposable entertainment. "A good fight! Neat! HEY HERE'S LIDDELL YAYAYAYAY!" is how your average UFC fan thinks. It doesn't go any deeper then that. If you think your average MMA fan is some junkie for hot man on man action to the point where that's all they like, then you are a fool.

 

And for whatever reason, since I don't accept the "GOOD FIGHTS ARE AWESOME AND ALL YOU NEED~!" theory always presented in this forum, I'm suddenly enemy #1. Hell, EHME I believe insulted me. In the end, when another Fight Night special is main evented by two unknown fighters and doesn't draw, you'll think back to me~! and this post.

[Lei Tong 0]

YPOV never said that freakshows don't draw; he simply said that it's a stupid model to base your business on, much like (I think) AboveAverage mentioned earlier. I won't argue one way or another, simply because I don't really care. I've admitted before that I have no interest in MMA becoming anymore successful than it is, and it's not really worth reposting the same reasons. However, for what it's worth, I was relatively accurate in my prediction of events while everyone else was freaking out over EliteXC getting a network TV slot. Also, bringing up the IFL, who tried to use a team concept as one of their main drawing points, as an example of a company promoting pure fighting is inaccurate. On the other side of things, if personality and interest generated from outside the fights themselves is all it takes to succeed, then Iron Ring would've been a huge success.

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but it seems that as of late your interest in MMA seems almost entirely on the business side of things. For as much as I give guys like Rudo & Curry shit for their occasional pro-wrestling approach to watching MMA, they can often give in depth analysis of the the fights and fighters themselves, independant of how charismatic or popular a fighter is. I think to most guys who watch MMA and bother to waste their time to post about in on a message board (*raises hand*), the business end side of things is, at most, a means to an end: the more popular MMA gets, the more money there is to spend on quality fighters, and more fights there are available to watch. At the end of the day though, if that success comes at the expense of quality of fights and the legitimacy of the competitive nature of the sport, you can expect a backlash from members of the community, similar to what's happened to boxing from time to time.

 

And, for the record, I haven't paid attention to the ratings for almost any MMA promotion in almost a year, so I'll be enjoying (or not) the next Ultimate Fight Night largely on the merits of the fights themselves.

[Lei Tong 0]

Also, why is everyone freaking out over YPOV dropping the N word? Y'all acting like you've never had to deal with a racist Tamilian before.

[Mik 0]

 

I'd imagine Joe watching events in a better situation then this... I don't know.

 

Hey, ratings were high for the card. Probably never again, though.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

Here's the deal; I'm not calling him a nigger. But his gimmick is that he IS a nigger. This isn't really anything we don't know, I mean honestly. You're fooling yourself if you think the guy's schtick has anything to do with his fighting. It has everything to do with his look and persona, much of which has to do with him being a stereotypical thugged out dumb black man. I'm sure Kimbo is a smart dude, he has to be. But the bottom line is that one of the reasons he is popular, the main one, is that he is a big, ripped, mean looking black guy who talks like he's from the ghetto (he is, but he's a lot smarter than he lets off) and acts like a disrespectful little cunt, who gained his fame fighting people on the street. That's what he's being marketed as, that's part of the appeal. I'm just calling a spade a spade.

[Lei Tong 0]

I'm just calling a spade a spade.

 

that'sracist!.gif

 

Fucking dothead.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's a serious beard on Rogan.

[Warriorfan 0]

It looked like in the 1st round that kelly was holding gina's hair, and punching with her other hand and knee.

 

Ohh, I'm watching it again right now, she grabbed gina's right ponytail thing with her left hand, and then threw a knee, then tried to throw a right uppercut.

 

Carano impresses me everytime. She seems to barely get any damage to the face, and she fights like a dude. People don't give gina the credit she deserves as a quality striker. she looks better technically than many of her male counterparts. she reads her opponents well, and always seems to be able to turn it up a notch when she has to.

 

I think when Carano fights that Cyborg chick she'll definitely take some damage. During the event they showed a clip from her untelevised fight and she looks scary as hell. If she can take Carano down then I don't hold much hope for a victory for Carano.

 

Gina Carano will not be in the same building with Cyborg after last night's debacle much less fight her. I don't see them fighting until possibly 2010 if ever. Carano is all Shaw has at this point after his idiocy in letting Kimbo fight an unknown after he made Slice the foundation of his company.

 

To the freakshow argument, whoever said it doesn't work is completely wrong.

 

Boxing has been filled with freakshows and when there is a racial component added as well I.E. Black vs White it is a pure winner. In MMA as well as boxing, the freakshow heavyweight is gold. Ko's are king, always.

 

EliteXC had a perfect opportunity to present themselves as a viable contender against the UFC. Kimbo had the internet fandom which continued to grow and the look of a killer in the cage. Shaw could've rode out Kimbo's buildup to a pay-per view with Ortiz if he didn't pull the moronic move of putting Kimbo up against an unknown.

 

The irony here is that Ken Shamrock was the gateway fighter that brought MMA to the forefront in North America, and by his stupidity last week; he may have inadvertently removed the man who could've been the gateway fighter for a new generation.

 

 

[Wally Balls 0]

Oh, also... this:

 

http://deadspin.com/5059233/meet-the-man-who-felled-kimbo

 

So Kimbo is supposed to fight Shamrock, and then loses to fucking Goldust. Where does Kimbo go from here?

 

I'd like to see Wildman Marc Mero and Kimbo Slice in a WWF Brawl for All.

[Your Paragon of Virtue 0]

That was pretty sweet, and yeah, Joe Rogan gets more coolness points for still being a normal guy who watches fights in a shitty wood paneled basement, so he can chill with his BROS.

[starvenger 0]

Gina Carano will not be in the same building with Cyborg after last night's debacle much less fight her. I don't see them fighting until possibly 2010 if ever. Carano is all Shaw has at this point after his idiocy in letting Kimbo fight an unknown after he made Slice the foundation of his company.

I think that the fight's gonna happen.

 

First off, they've been pushing Santos as someone who can beat Gina, and as a fight that you (the casual viewer) WANT to see. I don't think that they've done that with any of Gina's other opponents.

 

Second, the Kimbo Slice Experience once again shows that you can only protect your stars for so long. At some point they have to show that they're more than just hype.

 

Third, assuming that the fight is great (always a dangerous assumption in MMA), they could probably position it as a "best of three" which (sorry LT) would be good for business.

 

Fourth, it's pretty much all EliteXC has got, if they're going for the mainstream audience. Shields and Lawler aren't gonna do that, and KJ Noons' ego alone aren't gonna do it. So it comes down to the pretty chick fighting a chick who inherited the nickname "Cyborg" through marriage.

 

So yeah, if EliteXC is still around in two months, bring it on.