WrestleMania Roundtable Part Three: The Middle Years

[King Kamala 0]

Hi folks, welcome to the third part of our six part series, going over the past, present, and future of WrestleMania. Today we're discussing an era of WrestleMania that I think few would describe as their favorites. Thus, we've got one of our grouchiest roundtables yet. It's also one of our most star studded panels yet...so let's introduce them.

 

alkeiper: TSM Moderator. Founder of the WWE 24/7 folder.

 

Hunter's Torn Quad: Long time, former head of the WWE folder.

 

Sensei John Kreese: Leader of The Cobra Kai

 

King Kamala Classic: Once saw a blimp

 

Cheech Tremendous: Newest addition to the TSM moderating staff.

 

 

King Kamala Classic: Time to o discuss my least favorite era of WM!

Alkeiper: yeah, some uninspiring work in here

Hunter’s Torn Quad: The cream of the crap, as it were.

King Kamala Classic: yeah...two Manias in here that'd go in my Bottom 5...which ones they'll be...well we'll find out

 

 

WrestleMania XI

 

Alkeiper: Wrestlemania XI is a show that doesn't hold up well over time. Taylor/Bigelow was a treat due to the novelty of a one-off celebrity having a good match. Diesel/Michaels was good but not great. Hart/Backlund was a disappointment.The bigger problem is that the show did not have a big event feel. It was in a minor city and arena, and the celebrities were lackluster.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: The main thing I remember from this is having the single worst rendition of the American national anthem in WM history. As for the wrestling, it wasn't that good. Shawn/Diesel was good but not great. Bigelow/LT was acceptable as a novelty, but as a match it was ropey. Everything else was sub-par and easily forgetable.

 

Sensei John Kreese: Wrestlemania XI just shows how weak the WWF roster was at the time. Diesel vs HBK was the only superstar vs superstar match, as all the other top stars (Bret, Taker, Razor) were paired off with midcarders. LT was great for a celebrity wrestler but Vince failed to realize that he wasn't that popular outside of the NY area. I remember back in 4th grade, there was a lot of buzz among my friends (all sports fans, even though I wasn't) about LT wrestling after the angle at the Royal Rumble, but by the time the match rolled around, it was 2 and a half months later and nobody was talking about it. I don't know if that means anything w/r/t the drawing power of the match (though I do know it did a disappointing buyrate) but that's just my personal experience. Diesel vs Michaels was good, but it made Diesel look like a chump for HBK to get a 20-count on him while the ref was out. Piper ruined the Bret-Backlund match, Taker match was bad, and Yokozuna was a lame surprise. They tried to make up for the lack of stars on the roster by loading the show with celebs. Pam Anderson was a good choice, as she was a tabloid fixture due to her marriage to Tommy Lee, but I doubt she made a difference on the buyrate. When you have Pam, do you really need Jenny McCarthy? (For some reason the WWF called her "Jennifer McCarthy" in their promotion of the show despite her never to my knowledge using that name professionally.) I hated JTT back then, but hey, kids loved Home Improvement. Nick Tuturro is perhaps the most surprising and pointless Wrestlemania celeb ever.

 

King Kamala Classic: I think wrestling-wise, this show is the definition of average. Besides Undertaker-King Kong Bundy, there's nothing that stood out and made me say "Wow, that sucked". But on the other hand, there was nothing all that great. As HTQ said, Shawn/Diesel was good but not as good as their future matches would be. Bigelow/LT is the Steamboat/Flair of matfches involving one off celebrities but obviously isn't a super great match otherwise. I seem to remember a lot of matches in the **-*** range on the show (Backlund-Hart, Jarrett-Ramon, Diesel-HBK, and Bam Bam-LT) The overall atmosphere was kind of dreary. Boy oh boy were the celebrity appearances lame. Though I was mildly amused by the one with Jonathan Taylor Thomas and Bob Backlund. Holding WrestleMania in Hartford (no offense to the residents of that fair city) was definitely a low point in the WWF's history. Just terrible. I know the WWF was probably at their low point popularity wise but they couldn't have found anywhere better than Hartford? And hey, wasn't this the WrestleMania where a Special Olympian sang the anthem? HTQ, ya big jerk! Seriously though, the fact that a Special Olympian was singing the National Anthem is pretty indicative of how far the WWF had fallen. I mean, great for the kid but does he have to do it at the biggest event of the year? I'd still say Rockin' Robin was a worse anthem singer though!

 

Cheech Tremendous:. Let me state for the record that Wrestlemania XI is by far the worst Mania they every produced. Whereas WMIX gets a bad rap because of the terrible angle that ended the show, WMXI is totally lackluster from start to finish. There are no great matches or memorable angles. LT-Bam Bam and Diesel/Shawn as the double main events? I'll pass. It may have been the best celebrity match ever, but that's not so much a compliment but a commentary on celebrity matches. Diesel-Shawn was an okay matchup, but Shawn had spent the better part of 18 months doing squat and now we're supposed to buy him as a challenger to a 7' monster babyface champion? Nope. I can't buy that. Everything else on the show is a throwaway. Lex Luger goes from main event to curtain jerker in the span of a year. Ramon-Jarrett is a waste of time, Undertaker does nothing of note and Bret and Backlund have a lackluster follow-up to Survivor Series. Even the venue was terrible. The Hartford Civic Center. Hey Vince, if you're that worried about attendance just do the show at MSG again. That basically sums up my feelings on the show.

 

King Kamala Classic: I got to disagree on it being the worst. There's no doubt that it's a very mediocre 'Mania but it's more forgettable than actively horrible. I wouldn't even put in my Bottom 5.

 

Cheech Tremendous: When it comes to Mania, forgettable is worse than actively bad.

 

alkeiper : I disagree, because I at least get enjoyment from decent work

 

Cheech Tremendous: Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. I'm not a big fan of going back and watching events for decent in-ring work. If I'm popping in an old tape it's because there is a moment or an angle that is special to me. Decent ring work is not enough to keep me coming back.

 

King Kamala Classic: I was just about to say that...Forgettable Vs Actively Bad also basically sums up the what's worse argument beteween Kevin Sullivan's run with the book in WCW in '00 or Vince Russo's WCW runs that we've had on the board occasionally....but we'll get to Russo a little later. And we'll talk about that argument in The Starrcade roundtables series in November!

 

WrestleMania XII

 

Alkeiper: Wrestlemania XII was a very good show. Anaheim provided a suitable venue. Michaels/Hart has some problems but at worst it's a **** match and stacks up among the better broadways in wrestling history. Undertaker/Diesel was surprisingly good. I also liked Piper/Goldust. I got the feeling that they were trying to replicate the Patterson/Slaughter alley fight. While they did not match that, it was a good brawl and Piper's last good bout. The other matches were watchable and the one bad effort in Warrior/HHH clocked under two minutes.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I didn't think too highly of this one. I think Hart/Michaels is overrated to a considerable degre I've detailed in the past why I think it's nowhere near this MotY that it's been called and I'll post it in the thread when this gets posted.

Undertaker/Diesel was shockingly good considering the limitations of the gimmick of one participant and the lack of talent of the other. I thought Austin/Vega was ungodly dull, the six-man opener wasn't much better, the Warrior/HHH squash was fine for what it was and Piper/Goldust was a match of two halves. The first part, the brawl, was really good, but the second half was something out of Russo era Raw. It was terrible. This WM was notable for Shawn's big win and the one hour match, but other than that, I didn't think there was much, if anything, of note or that you need to see again.

 

Sensei John Kreese: XII was a good show. Two big matches that fans wanted to see on top. A lot of people criticize the Iron Man match for going an hour without a fall, but at the time, neither Hart nor Michaels had been pinned on TV in almost a year. At a time when both guys were super-protected, to take a fall in the middle of the match would have trivialized the moment. It wasn't a classic match, but I like it. Undertaker-Diesel was a good power match, and certainly Taker's best Mania match of the 90s. The Warrior squash was...well, a Warrior squash. It was exciting at the time. The debut of "Marc Morrow" was a nice surprise. I liked the first half of the Piper-Goldust fight. Piper smashing the car window was cool. The "in the ring" portion was the most intentionally gay wrestling match of all time. Dick grabbing, guys kissing, a man in lingerie...what's not to love? I was a devoted WWF fan at the time, and this show delivered what I wanted from them.

 

King Kamala Classic: I've only seen this show twice (once when it was first released on VHS and once about eight years ago) so forgive my memory for being foggy...I remembere there was an odd period where I really disliked this show. I don't think it was ever one of my least favorites but I remember at one point claiming I liked XI better than it (yikes!) but thinking about it over the past week, this isn't a bad show at all. Not one of the great WrestleManias or even one of the very good ones but an admirable effort given the roster at the time. Michaels/Hart I always found sort of overrated and I really hated the fact that a 60 minute Iron Man match had no pinfalls but I'd still put it in the **** range. At the time, Diesel and 'Taker was one of the most shockingly good matches of all time. I don't think 'Taker had had a good match in the WWF up to that point and Diesel had never had a good match with anybody not named Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart. I remember Savio/Steve Austin being pretty good but my memory could be off there since I haven't seen that match since I last watched the show. Piper/Goldust is a bit goofy but the first half of the match is a hell of a lot of fun. The opener is harmless enough and I never really got why people complained too much about The Warrior squash. It only lasted a minute, I marked out when I first watched it when I was 8 or 9...I think it served its intention of reintroducing The Warrior as a force to reckon with. Unfortunately, his run didn't pan out like everyone thought it would and everybody looked like an idiot but hindsight is 20/20. So yeah, decent show...not great but decent

 

Cheech Tremendous: Rating this show is difficult because it is truly a one-match show. If you like the main event, you like the show and if you don't, well there's not much else to save it. I personally don't care much for the Iron Man, both in terms of this match and the gimmick itself. I've never quite understood why they felt the compulsion to book that gimmick. Were they really that worried about selling Bret-Shawn as a main event match on its own? The entire pacing of those matches is counterintuitive to a babyface seeking his first world title win against a hated rival. I don't have much to say about the other matches that hasn't already been covered. Diesel/Taker is great given the personnel involved, but Diesel's impending departure was already being rumored at the time and it sort of killed any chance of a heated angle. Warrior's return is great but it didn't really go anywhere long-term. I've noticed that no one has really mentioned the pre-show garbage. Huckster-Nacho Man and the Bodydonnas-Godwinns were both pushed in the weeks leading up to the event, but ultimately were left off the show in favor of the Free For All gimmick they were pushing before the event. Both were quite embarrassing for the company. Finally, has anyone ever noticed the symmetry between the Mania IX and XII main events? In both instances we had a screwy title match after the main event had already ended and neither was followed up because one of the parties decided to go home after the show and have a long vacation. I think one gets a pass simply because its Shawn and not Hogan.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad The thing not remember about the main event is that it died live.

 

King Kamala Classic: One quick thing I wanted to comment on is that Arrowhead Pond is easily the least remarkable venue to host two WrestleManias.

 

Sensei John Kreese: WWF went there so many times in the late 90s

 

King Kamala Classic: I think my initial problem with the show was that it was built so much around one match. The rest of the card kind of felt like an In Your House card besides Piper and Warrior's returns.

 

Cheech Tremendous: The Arrowhead Pond is still better than Hartford.

 

Sensei John Kreese: Well yeah at least an actual sports team played there

 

King Kamala Classic: Hey man, The Hartford Whalers were still playing at The Civic Center at the time. I think we can all agree though that Hartford is the worst 'Mania venue overall

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: The Trump Plaza says hi

 

King Kamala Classic: Eh..the crowds were dead but Trump Plaza but I’ve always liked the look of it. Doesn’t really fit a wrestling show but it looks distinguished. Hartford Civic Center is a blah looking venue with a dead crowd. I give it the edge for Worst WrestleMania venue ever.

 

alkeiper: the Trump Plaza was the worst IMO, it looked like an oversized ballroom. At least Hartford was equipped to hold a wrestling show.

 

Sensei John Kreese: I liked the steps of the trump plaza quite a different look but not great for a wrestling show

 

Cheech Tremendous: I thought that there was something unique about Trump. Hartford was just an arena Does anyone know why they went for an Iron Man gimmick? It seems so unnecessary for this match. They could have gone 60 minutes without laying it out beforehand

 

King Kamala Classic: yeah...I don't see why it had to be an Iron Man match...especially since there was only one damn pinfall.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I guess they wanted to make it memorable. Guarantee the match would go an hour

 

King Kamala Classic: it would've still been memorable if it'd went to an hour draw without The Iron Man gimmick.

 

alkeiper: it would've worked better at one fall apiece and Hart winning the first fall, Michaels winning due to the 60 minute stipulation, would let both wrestlers save face.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Technically its a sound match, but good god is it boring

 

King Kamala Classic: yeah, it's not a match that I like to sit down and watch on a regular basis.

 

Cheech Tremendous: remember watching the show live and just hoping someone would get a fall. There was like a 30-minute stretch where nothing of note happens

 

Sensei John Kreese: bret says in his book that shawn and patterson decided on the iron man stip without even consulting him

 

alkeiper Hart/Michaels, match of the night?

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Tied with Undertaker/Diesel.For me, anyway

 

King Kamala Classic: yeah Hart/Michaels is the best match probably but Undertaker/Diesel is most entertaining

 

Cheech Tremendous: Best match, but that's not really a compliment. It was a dull show, match wise

 

 

WrestleMania XIII (Notably deleted from this segment...a discussion over whether Sid crapped his pants during the main event or doing a rehearsal match at a house show leading up to the event leading to a bunch of us making jokes about the 'Taker/Sid match being crap and a discussion of the career of Curtis Hughes!)

 

Alkeiper: this is obviously a one match show. I think we can all agree that Hart/Austin is a classic. The rest of the show is dull and unmemorable for the most part Though the Chicago Street Fight is a decent brawl.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I would concur. Bret/Austin was a classic, the six-man streetfight was surprisingly good, and the rest was completely throwaway.

 

Sensei John Kreese: I wasn't really watching wrestling at the time of XIII, as a newfound interest in music and girls had led me away from my wrestling fandom. I was aware that Sid was champion, but that was about it. That said, I remember watching the end of Superstars on the morning before the show, and as Pettengill or whoever it was went over the card I was thinking "Really? That's the card for Wrestlemania Having caught up with the event and all the Raws leading up to it over the years, I imagine that if I had been watching at the time, I wouldn't have been any more excited. Not everything on the show was bad but everything was weak except for Bret-Austin. I think all that needs to be said about that match has been said over the years, but suffice to say it was amazing and probably worth buying the show for. Taker winning the title was nice, but THREE Bret run-ins during the match was a little much. And Russo wasn't even booking then! Nothing else of consequence happened there, so what's left to say?

 

King Kamala Classic: Austin-Bret is probably in my top ten if not top five favorite of all matches but even that's not enough to save this show from being in my Bottom 5 'Manias. Everything besides that and The Chicago Street Fight (which as everybody has noted is a half decent brawl) ranges from forgettable to outright terrible. Sid-Taker is one if not the worst Mania event of all time and the less said about Rocky Maivia Vs The Sultan is better. Again, this show just feels really dead, like a particularly weak In Your House card in a bigger venue for the most part. First three months or so of '97 was another low point in WWF history. Luckily things would get better soon after but man this is not a good show by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Cheech Tremendous: In what is becoming the theme of the night, this was, once again, a one-match show. There is nothing that I can add to Austin/Hart at this point. It was a classic match, a classic angle and a classic feud. Truly the highlight of 1997. As for the rest: I enjoy the Street Fight in the same way I like the Savage/Crush match at Mania X. It was so unique for what they were doing at the time. Everything else is pure rubbish. The tag and IC title matches go nowhere and had no real build to speak of. Undertaker winning the belt is a nice moment, but it really comes off like they had nothing else to do with the belt. It's a really lackluster finish. I do have to say that I enjoyed the build to this show. The drama with the world belt from Survivor Series to Mania was really compelling television at the time, but I have no idea how it would hold up now.

 

Alkeiper: Undertaker/Sid is probably the worst WM main event ever run

 

Cheech Tremendous: I don't know why Vince thought that would sell. It doesn't even look interesting on paper, let alone in an actual ring

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Vince was panicking and when he panics he goes to the big guys

 

Cheech Tremendous: The IC title was really in a rut around this time. They just couldn't figure out what to with the belt from Ahmed's injury to Owen's run in the summer of 97

 

King Kamala Classic: yeah, along with having the worst WWF World title match at a 'Mania, this show has the Worst Intercontiental title match at a ‘Mania (if not, one of the worst IC title matches of all time). Odd considering that Rock and Fatu would have some pretty decent matches three years later...under very different gimmicks of course and Rocky was much less green.

 

Cheech Tremenedous: The Sultan was a go-nowhere gimmick. I'm shocked that he even made it on the show, let alone a title match with a green as grass Rocky

 

Alkeiper: and likely only thanks to being Samoan probably figuring the Rock could use a familiar opponent

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: The four-way tag opener was terrible

 

King Kamala Classic yeah, that was a terrible way to open the show also I can't believe I forgot to mention Goldust-Hunter Hearst Helmsley in the Worst Series Ever thread I started some months bacl. It seems like all the matches they produced were ungodly boring and long

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Those two worked for months and couldn't get above **1/2

 

Cheech Tremendous: Neither one could do much at the time, despite other periods of solid work

 

 

WrestleMania XIV

 

alkeiper: Wrestlemania XIV was well regarded. Almost every match on the card delivered. Austin/Michaels worked a great match despite Michaels' injury, Kane/Undertaker was good, Cactus/Funk/Outlaws was a fun brawl. Taka/Aguila was innovative for WWE at the time and the card was just really well paced

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad I didn't like this WM too much. The tag battle royal was below average. Taka/Aguila was a spotfest that had nothing else to it. Owen/HHH was acceptable. The mixed tag was a couple of good Sable spots and nothing else. Rock/Shamrock was ok. The tag title match was a fun brawl. Kane/Undertaker was terrible. The main event, as a match, was fine but not really above average, however the real story is Austin becoming a star and Shawn working a miracle considering his back was blown out and he probably shouldn't have been wrestling at all. You can see it on his face for almost the entire match that he's in great pain but he keeps going as best he can and manages to not mess anything up. Overall, as a show, not good in terms of quality, but it was strictly designed to launch Steve Austin into the stratosphere as the next superstar in wrestling and it worked better than I think anyone expected.

 

Sensei John Kreese: 14 was another good one. No great matches, although the main event was a miracle considering how messed up Shawn's back was (and Austin's neck for that matter). Stone Cold won clean, Tyson got to punch a guy out. Just what you'd want. Everything just fell into place on this show. Sable got revenge on Luna, Cactus and Funk got revenge on the Outlaws, LOD had a triumphant reunion, Rock continued his reign as undeserving champion, and DX screwed Owen again. The only surprise for me was Undertaker vs Kane; I was sure Kane was going to win, because I figured, as it was with the Mankind-Taker feud, Taker would lose at first to build up to a highly-anticipated rematch. Now, looking back, as they've tried to make "will the streak end?" an important drawing card for every year's Mania, they're lucky they didn't put him over, but at the time, it seemed like it could have/should have gone either way. Tyson was the best use of a celeb I've ever seen in wrestling (they almost always work better as heels), and they got him at exactly the right time. This was a similar situation for me as it was in '95, as the big celebrity angle buzz seemed to have cooled off since the Rumble, but in this case it did a huge buyrate, so I guess I was wrong. The Pete Rose thing was fun but pointless; I suppose it was good for SportsCenter fodder but since Tyson was on the show, they already had SportsCenter clips ready. Gennifer Flowers was just a cheap attempt to capitalize on the Lewinsky scandal, and I doubt it meant anything for publicity. But if not for her, we wouldn't have had "If you smell what the Rock is cookin'", so it all worked out. I wonder why Carrot Top backed out of the show. But then again, I also wonder why he was originally booked in the first place. It's not like Box Office Poison/9 1/2 Seconds/Chairman of the Bored didn't need the promotion.

 

King Kamala Classic: 14, I see as the real coming out party of The Attitude era. No great matches but everything works. A really, really well paced Mania. Cactus and Chainsaw Charlie-The NAO and the main event are thehighlights. Having a hard time thinking of anything on the show that was outright terrible. I don’t think there really was anything though on the same hand, there were no classics workrate-wise. A rare show where pretty much every match seemed to serve its purpose. Not one of the greatest Manias but certainly one of the most important and easily the Best of this era.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Mania XIV is a fun show, but one that I haven't bothered to go back to in quite some time. Shawn-Austin is what it is. The match itself is something of a let down given what those two are capable of, but with Shawn's injury it was the best we could have hoped for. The angle surrounding it is gold and Tyson's involvement was probably the best use of a celebrity ever. The remaining matches all range from above average to good, but none of them are overly memorable. Kane was such a strong character when they first introduced him. He was second from the top less than six months after debuting for the company! That's an amazing turnaround. The dumpster match is a fun brawl, even if Terry Funk's gimmick is totally ridiculous. Owen-HHH was okay, but let's be honest here: he should have been facing Shawn in a grudge match for the Survivor Series incident. A total victim of timing and politics. As for the opener: I really wanted to believe that LOD had one last run in them and Sunny looked great, but the magic really was gone by that point. Jobbing to NOD multiple times just killed them dead and they never recovered. More than anything, I remember this show setting up the next night's Raw, which is still to this day my favorite episode of wrestling television ever.

 

Alkeiper: Michaels’ back injury is poetic justice in a way for all of the times he faked injuries to get out of jobs.

 

Cheech Tremendous: I sort of touched on this earlier, but I wish that the timing would have been a little different so that we could have gotten a proper blowoff to Owen-Michaels

 

King Kamala Classic: The main event really had to be Austin-Michaels though. I think Owen-Michaels would have been better served for Royal Rumble or No Way Out.

 

Cheech Tremendous: It did, that's why I said the timing didn't work out. Hart needed a big win over Shawn but you can't do that while building to Mania and Austin's first big win. Also, let me go ahead and admit one of my darkest secrets: I thought Austin was going to crash and burn as WWF Champion.

 

King Kamala Classic: wha? Really? Do explain

 

Cheech Tremendous: I didn't see him as the type of babyface that could carry a promotion on his own and I didn't that there were any heel characters for him to play off of. Little did I know that Vince would fill that role perfectly.

 

Sensei John Kreese: i was hoping for kurrgan to be built up as a challenger to austin's title

 

King Kamala Classic: I can definitely see that line of thinking. To tell the truth, I was actually a bit befuddled that Corporate Dude Love was his first challenger for the first week or so of that feud.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Even to this day, I think Austin gets a bit too much credit for the success of the Attitude era. DX, Vince, the Rock and Sable all played an integral part in this company becoming the late 90s juggernaut

 

King Kamala Classic: I agree. He’s an integral reason for The Attitude Era’s success but it was really a case of a lot of guys pitching in, various ways, to make it big.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: I don't

 

Cheech Tremendous: And why is that? Austin had the benefit of being booked on top when the shows as a whole were outstanding. He definitely succeeded in that position, but I'm not convinced that they couldn't have done it without him. Look at 2000 for an example.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad I think the dynamic that turned things around was Austin and his playing off of the evil Mr McMahon character. I think that, as much as a major supporting role the others played, ultimately, it was down to Austin that things turned around

 

Alkeiper: I agree with HTQ, 2000 was nice but it took someone to open the market in the first place

 

Cheech Tremendous: can you have an Austin without a McMahon? Austin really only drew when he was booked in some way with McMahon on the other side.

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Which means nothing because it was still Austin being part of the dynamic that turned things around

 

Alkeiper: When was he booked without McMahon?

 

Cheech Tremendous: He spent all of 1997 as the top babyface against the Hart Foundation and that didn't set the world on fire. He didn't do much after neck injury either

 

King Kamala Classic: would evil McMahon have the same effect without Austin?

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad You might have needed Austin with McMahon and vice versa for things to click as big as they did, but things weren't going to get that big with any other people in that dynamic

 

Cheech Tremendous: I agree with that. It was a perfect storm

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Austin deserves all the credit simply because it wouldn't have worked as well as it did any other way

 

WrestleMania XV

Alkeiper: Wrestlemania XV in my humble opinion is the biggest pile of crap ever to have the Wrestlemania label placed upon it. Multiple turns, run-ins, non sensical endings, hokey finishes, simulated death, and every other piece of crap that Vince Russo could put his idiotic hands on, Austin/Rock was the only decent match and that gets worse every time I watch it

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: This was Vince Russo at his nonsensical, idiotic, dumbshit, retarded, lacking in common sense worst. A total car crash with, as al said, nothing but run-ins, swerves, double swerves, terrible finishes, bad gimmicks, and complete retardation. The Hell in a Cell match gets forgotten for good reason; it sucked. Everything about it sucked from the storyline going in to the angle going out. It was pure, Ruossriffic bullshit. The main event was good, but not great, and saying it stole the show isn't anything to brag about. As a whole, taking into account match quality, good storylines, hot angles and everything else, this is hands down the worst WM ever. There isn't a single thing on this show you ever need to watch. Ever. You can go through your life never watching this show. In fact, I encourage it.

 

Sensei John Kreese: 15 was a total one-match show, as they often were in the Austin era. The main event was good, but pales in comparison to the Austin-Rock match two years later. The HHH heel turn was surprising, as was the Big Show face turn, and that's about it as far as notable moments at this show. I hated the "switch the Outlaws in the title matches" dealy-a-bob they pulled, because both guys had legitimate issues with their originally-scheduled opponents, and in both cases, the multi-man matches made sense as opposed to being thrown together before Russo switched them. Test's classic "Guns don't kill people, I KILL PEOPLE" shirt makes an appearance, and that's a plus. Can you believe WWF really thought Bart Gunn could knock out Butterbean? This show felt like little more than an overlong Raw with a special main event tacked on, but it got a huge freakin' buyrate so who cares? Also notable was HBK totally botching his pre-main event promo, as he told Vince "you and your corporation are barred from ringside," then realized that Vince had to interfere so added, "Well, I guess you can come down" which just sounded ridiculous. Oh, Shawn.

 

King Kamala Classic: Yeck...another bottom 5 show here, may in fact take the #1 spot. Just doesn't feel like a WrestleMania at all...more like a bad In Your House. I recall Backlash the next month being a much stronger show wrestling wise (though that's not saying much). The main event was good but we'd see lots better from Rock and Austin and X-Pac/Shane was a fun enough garbage match but we'd see a lot stronger garbage matches from Shane. Everything else just sort of sucked...especially the Hell In The Cell match (which was so bad they neglected to put on that Complete Hell DVD that came out a few months back) and I as well hated the switching of The Outlaws in the title matches. Was funny to see Bart Gunn get knocked out though. Though I think it's hyperbolic to say this is Russo at his worst, are we forgetting a show called New Blood Rising, gentlemen? Anyways, bad bad bad show. Yep, it very may well be the Worst WrestleMania ever. I switch back and forth between this and IX.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Everyone hates XV, but I really remember enjoying the show at the time. Like most Russo era stuff, it was great while you were living it because of the great episodic television he wrote, but the stuff was so nonsensical that it didn't hold up a month later, let alone ten years. But like Russo or not, things were really clicking in early '98. Maybe I'm just being overly nostalgic because this was basically the height of the wrestling interest from my friends, but I have a soft spot for it. We probably had a dozen or so people watching this show and we all left the event happy. Austin/Rock was a rather lackluster match, definitely the weakest in their series, but those two were so over at the time that you can't help but enjoy the atmosphere. I do think that the buildup was poor, with way too many title changes leading up to the show. Should have just made it a three-way if they were that concerned about keeping Foley hot in early '99. The rest of the show: lazy and forgettable. I guess X-Pac-Shane is a fun little brawl. Billy Gunn should have gone over Shamrock at this show for the title, but I guess since that was too predictable he had to switch places with the Road Dogg. I hated that. Oh, and the tag title situation was just a mess. If I were to criticize one thing above all else, it was the fact that they couldn't find a decent team to program against Jarrett and Owen. What a waste of the belts and a spot on the card. But Butterbean destroying Bart Gunn is the funniest thing to happen at Mania and if you can't enjoy it, you have no heart. Big Show-Mankind was really a waste

 

King Kamala Classic: I haven't read them in years but I vaguely recall Foley admitting that he was half assing his series with The Big Show in one of his books.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Both were super hot at the time and left the show in way worse shape

 

Final Thoughts?

King Kamala Classic: any final thoughts before we finish? On XV? on the era?

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Not the best stretch for quality shows

 

King Kamala Classic: Yeah, for my money, the worst era of ‘Mania with XIII and XV being two of my least favorites and XI not being too far behind.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Most of them were one-match shows. A really average bunch of shows overall.

 

King Kamala Classic: None of these shows really had the sense of spectacle I expect in a 'Mania either. Not even XIV really. XI kind of attempted it with the shitty celebrity cameos but you can't have a spectacle in Hartford.

 

Cheech Tremendous: Hartford!

 

King Kamala Classic: They all just sort of looked like any other show.

 

Cheech Tremendous: I still can't believe they ran Mania in Hartford Was Columbus, Ohio already booked? How about Tulsa, Oklahoma?

 

King Kamala Classic: I believe Smuckers Stars on Ice was running at The Worcester Centrum that week

 

Sensei John Kreese: someone needs to ask meltzer why hartford

 

Cheech Tremendous: HTQ, get him on the horn!

 

Hunter’s Torn Quad: Probably because it was their 'home'

 

King Kamala Classic: I don't think the aura of WrestleMania would be recaptured until X-7....but that's next time

 

Cheech Tremendous: Nice seque, Kamala

 

King Kamala Classic: thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bob_barron 0]

I've been to the Hartford Civic Centre before and I agree with everything.

 

That said, does HTQ actually like a Wrestlemania?

 

XIV is one of my favourite Manias. It's just a really fun show, almost all the faces go over and nothing is too awful. I like Taker v. Kane, especially Taker's epic entrance.

[Guest Smues]

Wrestlemania XV was indeed a massive Russo cluster fuck. Even watching it live on PPV as a major mark at the time I felt very let down with only the main event to redeem it. And that was live, watching it later it just got worse and worse. Eat me Russo, eat me. Which Wrestlemania I hate most is a tie between XV and IX. And at least IX had the awesome collesium.

 

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I liked XII and thought XIV was okay. The other three are awful and I agree with those that say XV was the worst the show ever put on. It was terrible from top to bottom up until the main event and that was bad as far as Rock/Austin is concerned (they had a much better match the next month at Backlash). Definitely the worst period as far as Wrestlemania is concerned.

[Aero 0]

WM XI and XII are just blah for me. Nothing horrible, but the only standout match is the Iron Man between the two. If I had to choose my least favorite WM, it would probably be XI.

 

WM 13 gets a free pass for me since it was the first PPV that I was ever able to order. Before that, I always had to watch scramblevision or wait for the Coliseum VHS releases. I loved the show at the time, but not much holds up, with one obvious exception, which is my favorite match of all time. On paper, I think Bulldog & Owen vs. Vader & Mankind could've been very good, but it just turned out to be way too dull.

 

I still do enjoy WM XIV from top to bottom, with the Dumpster match still being my favorite. Nothing's awful. I do remember being very shocked that The Rock held on to the IC Title at the time. I was positive that Shamrock was going to be taking the title, especially after getting screwed out of the win at the Rumble. Of course, it worked out much better with Rock holding onto the title.

 

I think everyone has one of those shows where upon first viewing, it seemed amazing, but the years just aren't kind to it. That would be WM XV for me. To this day, I still enjoy Austin/Rock and X-Pac/Shane, but yes, everything else mostly sucks. Despite getting only 3-4 minutes, I think the Tag Title match is fine, it's just that it needed more time. With Mark Henry being injured, the only other good team that could fill in as challengers would've been the Outlaws. I know they were involved in their own respective stories, but considering Russo felt it necessary to just switch them around on a whim, I see no reason why they couldn't have been put in the Tag Title scene a few weeks earlier, instead. The Backlash match between the two was decent. Of course, Jarrett & Owen retaining would be the preferable ending for WM.

 

 

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I think everyone has one of those shows where upon first viewing, it seemed amazing, but the years just aren't kind to it.

 

For me its X. Two fantastic matches, returns by two of favourites (Perfect & Piper), Bret Hart winning the WWF Championship and Randy Savage getting another big moment. It was just a great show to watch live. In retrospect, everything except the two big matches sucked, the two returns meant nothing, Savage was gone by the end of the year and Bret Hart had a good run before getting derailed by the Clique. Time has not been kind to that show.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

In the early days of the internet Wrestlemania X was generally considered to be one of, if not the best PPV of all time. Time has definitely not been kind to that show. Outside of the two big matches it's hard to even call that show good.

 

The vitriol for WM XV is surprising because I remember enjoying it live. At some point, I'll need to go back and watch it again. I haven't watched any of the Russo-era WWF stuff since it originally aired. I remember having my mind blown at the time, but it doesn't seem like that stuff has aged well at all. My nostalgia is choking about my ability to think rationally about those shows.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

In the early days of the internet Wrestlemania X was generally considered to be one of, if not the best PPV of all time.

 

I wasn't a part of the internet wrestling scene until around Wrestlemania XIII, but it is definitely how I felt at the time. On the other hand, I still like Wrestlemania IV so I've been known to disagree with general opinion from time to time.

[King Kamala 0]

I'd still say X is a very good if not great WrestleMania. How is it any different than XX? Two great matches, another good one, and then a bunch of filler. Plus it has the MSG crowd. Has the WWE ever done a bad PPV from MSG? While it's ludicrous to say the show holds up as one of the best as a lot of people were saying 10-15 years ago, it's ludicrous to say it's "not good". Who ya crapping Cheech?

 

I think I may have been a tad bit harsh on XV in the round table. Yes, it is one of the worst round tables. It is one of the worst Manias of all time for certain but I don't think it's one of the worst PPVs of all time and it's really not that much worse than a lot of PPVs of that era. At least, wrestling-wise, it's definitely a better show than IX. IX has a much stronger atmosphere though.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

While it's ludicrous to say the show holds up as one of the best as a lot of people were saying 10-15 years ago, it's ludicrous to say it's "not good". Who ya crapping Cheech?

Oops, let me try to rephrase that to make it more clear. Outside of the two big matches, it's not that good. Those two are still good enough to make it one of the five best Manias though.

 

WM XX's filler is a lot better than X's. A train wreck like Lesnar-Goldberg is a lot more fun than an Earthquake squash or MOM dicking around with the Quebecers.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

I can't even watch XX any more given what has happened in the years since, so that's not an easy question to answer. But from what I used to think of it, the filler was a lot better than at X, plus I have three great matches (the title matches and Rock&Sock/Evolution) as opposed to two at X and another good one (Christian/Jericho) that was way better than anything other than the Big 2 at X.

 

I don't think X is one of the worst, but it is pretty middle of the road compared to Best PPV Ever which is what I was thinking back in 1994.

[Papacita 0]

I don't think 'Taker had had a good match in the WWF up to that point and Diesel had never had a good match with anybody not named Shawn Michaels or Bret Hart.

How about the Diesel/Razor matches in 94?

 

XI: I had actually forgotten this until now, but this was the first Mania I saw live. I liked this a lot at the time, but since then it hasn't held up. The main event was what sold me on the show (although I've barely followed football and before this wouldn't have known LT if he passed me on the street), and I think it definitely lived up to the hype. I've never really cared for HBK and Diesel. I don't think I've ever seen Hart/Backlund in full, since our cable signal cut out in the middle of the match. I was always a bit of an Owen fan, so I LOVED seeing him pick up his first title here; that was a great moment. Other than that (and a mildly amusing JTT segment that I vaguely recall), nothing else stands out.

 

XII: By this time, I was a full blown HBK mark, so this is naturally my show. The Iron man was good. I'm glad to see Diesel and Taker getting some much deserved praise. I actually think this was one of the better built Mania matches I can remember (especially for the time period), with a completely logical beginning (both guys feeling they deserve a title shot) and some believeable (well...about as believeable as you can get for mid-90's Taker) tension leading up to the show. It was also cool to watch Nash's development into the cocky bad ass territory, and really he seemed to be the first person since Hogan that could *believeably* stand up to Taker, so that only made things more interesting. As for other stuff...Warrior's return was cool, and it's nice to know I wasn't the only one obsessed with the goofy closed captioning mistakes ("Marrow") of the time.

 

XIII: This was the first wrestling show I saw that just didn't like (AND I attended KOTR 95!). I agree with Cheech that the build for this show was crazy, and Bret/Austin more than delievered, but I was damn near bored to tears up until that match started. The 6 man was pretty enjoyable too, but outside of those matches, there was nothing here.

 

XIV: Haven't seen it in long time, but I have fun memories of this show. Even though it was inevitable that he was going over, I *COMPLETELY* turned on Austin in the build to this one (he gave Chyna the Stunner, after all) and spent the bulk of the main event playing the heel mark while my dad and everybody was so sure he would win. But yeah, this was a fantastic show. The only match I didn't really enjoy was Taker/Kane, but I actually remember enjoying it a couple of times on repeat viewings. Otherwise, I agree with everything that's been said.

 

XV: Mixed feelings on this show, as there was some really shitty stuff here that had no business being on Raw, much less a Mania. The Hardcore/I-C switch was just asinine, and even as a mark, the Tag Title match came off horribly, and the Cell match goes without saying. I didn't like Big Show/Foley either, come to think of it, and the Show turn just seemed oddly-timed and really lacked any kinda meaning for me. As for the good...I really liked X-Pac and Shane at the time, and but the HHH swerve at the end is flat out one of my favorite turns ever in that it completely caught me off guard when it happened, but looking back it made perfect sense. I dunno if it's my DX-bias coloring this for me or Russo's tendency to overload on swerves watering this down for everyone else, but I still think that whole angle was great. LOVED the Bart Gunn knock out as well, and the main event--while I agree it didn't hold up--was fun for what it was. Ultimately, I can competely understand why someone would peg this as the worst Mania ever.

[Diamonddust 0]

XIII is kind of poetic:

 

In the midst of an utterly poor Wrestlemania, one of the most important matches of all time in terms of influence and "game-changing ability" happens. The bulk of what the WWE became in the following years stem from this Wrestlemania, well, that one particular match.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

That said, does HTQ actually like a Wrestlemania?

I have many positive things to say about future Wrestlemania's.

 

And, as advertised, my thoughts on the WM XII Iron Man match, which were originally posted in a discussion thread about said match:

 

The first boos come at just shy of seven minutes into the math.

 

Lawler told too many jokes. While a supposedly serious wrestling match was going on, this little pervert was cracking jokes about Stu, Helen and Bret Hart

 

Bret played subtle heel through the match, tending to hit Shawn right at the break, while Shawn played total babyface.

 

Lawler would kill moves dead. When Shawn headscissored Bret through the ropes to the floor where Bret landed in a heap, Lawler totally blew the move off, saying it didn’t hurt Bret at all, and it only frustrated him. Even when they replayed the move, Lawler tried his best to kill the move, not only saying it didn’t hurt Bret at all, but that all of these “high flying” moves don’t really hurt much anyway.

 

Shawn worked on Bret’s left shoulder during the middle portion of the match, and at one point you can hear him ask Bret, “stay on the arm ?”, and what did it lead to ? Nothing. Oh, wait, I take that back. It led to Shawn putting a cross armbreaker on the wrong arm, which he immediately let go of, before applying the move to the arm he actually had been working on.

 

There was a lot of work done on arms and limbs during the match that led nowhere.

 

There were a few “Let’s go Bret”, chants here and there, but no such chants for Shawn.

 

There was a ref bump half way through, but it didn’t lead to anything and served no purpose whatsoever.

 

Around this time, Bret hits a piledriver on Shawn, which Lawler naturally pushes like hell as a fall winner, but Shawn kicks out, which is when the booing gets really loud.

 

For a 60 minute Iron Man match, there were very few pinfall or submission attempts made.

 

The whole match was wrestled like a standard match that was going to a 60 minute draw, rather than in Iron Man match that was going 60 minutes, and it showed glaringly. Neither man really went for any pinfalls or submissions nor did they show anything in terms of struggling when it came to fighting for decisions.

 

Both men were guilty of some really sloppy work, where they would hit a big move, and instead of going for a pin, where the other guy was flat on his back, they’d instead go to a rest hold or go right into the next high spot.

 

Shawn took a really big bump over the top rope, like his one against Jeff Jarrett at IYH 2, and Bret spent a long portion of the match working over both the back and Shawn’s legs as well. This was all well done stuff actually. All of which Shawn promptly no-sold when it came time to make his comeback. No limping, no grimacing, not even a squeal of pain. It was as if the last 15 minutes had never happened.

 

About the 45 minute mark it really started to drag, which wasn’t helped by the aforementioned fact that the match wasn’t wrestled with any real intensity or fire, and both men seemed to be going through the motions of wrestling for 60 minutes as if it was an exhibition. You never got the impression that these two men were fighting over any issue of importance, but rather they were just going out there and doing an exhibition of moves and holds with none of it really meaning anything.

 

All in all, the quality of the work itself was ****, but the structure of the match, and the fact that none of the work really led to anything, drags the match as a whole down to **1/2

[King Kamala 0]

Wow **1/2? Kind of harsh...but I can't say I entirely disagree with where you're coming from and yeah, the crowd isn't really liking most of it at all. I still think a regular Bret-Shawn match that went 30-45 minutes would have been a perfectly suitable Mania event.

 

To be fair to HTQ, the workrate of the WrestleManias he's done roundtables for hasn't been the greatest (for the most part...)

[CanadianGuitarist 0]

* My intial argument for XI was going to be (although it looks like most of you agreed with me to some extent): "Not necessarily bad, but not a Wrestlemania-feel either."

 

* I'm a little surprised with how little respect Bret-Michaels got, and while I disagree, the cases differing from mine are pretty laid out.

 

* I can't offer anything about XIII that hasn't already been said. Bret-Austin is probably my favourite match ever, the Street Fight was decent, everything else was forgettable.

 

* XIV may be my favourite WWE PPV of all time.

[Guest]

I try to look at shows within their era and measure them as they stack up with their contemporaries of the time and prior to that, not how they stack up to shows which took place at later dates and were much better. Looking back at WM X it's still a good show, but within the timeframe and what else we were getting, in addition to what was on display...just bumps it up and makes it a great show. Great shows break barriers and make you wonder if it could get better. WM X is one of those shows that, at the time, made you wonder.

 

That said

 

XI was below average. Two good matches. You take what you get there. They ran far better shows before and during that year.

 

XII is a show I've never watched all the way through. Just can't do it. I'm not a fan of the main event at all, it usually puts me to sleep. Also just okay.

 

XIII is terrible. I could go without watching this ever again.

 

XIV is entertaining, although I've watched it far too much. Even the shit I don't enjoy serves a purpose, and I would dare to call it good. Considering the depth of their PPV's leading up to Mania XIV, it's really quite a shock. Late '97-pre Mania '98 gave us PPV's that were straight garbage. Nothing is boring here.

 

I've got nothing to say about XV. It's hot waste.

[BruteSquad_BRODY 0]

Somebody wrote recently that like 25 % of the crowd left half way into the Bret/Shawn Iron man.

 

Apparently a huge number of people were there just to see the Warrior

 

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Wrestlemania X I fondly remember because in addition to the two great matches, Bret Hart won the world championship back from Yokozuna to top the show. Even if the match wasn't great, that was a feel good moment. There's some junk on the card but it's kept short.

[CanadianChris 0]

I just can't get over how crappy these WMs were. I know the business as a whole was in a down period (until XV, which had NO excuse), but there's just no excuse for some of these shows. Since these are the ones that I watch again the least, they're also the ones I have the least detailed thoughts on.

 

XI: I've described this before as just kind of there. If I had to pick the Mania where I'm most likely not remember anything that went on, it's this one. The main event had Bam Bam Bigelow! WTF? Not to mention a totally underwhelming HBK/Diesel title match and...uh...see, I just can't remember anything else on this card.

 

XII: Another one-match show, really. Bret/HBK was good, but totally undeserving of all the hype that went into it. I would've rather they just went out and did a broadway, but I know they had to add the stip so that the crowd wouldn't go completely dead after about half an hour. Diesel/Taker was nothing special. The crowd at the Pond was bad, as always -- I can't believe they actually went back four years later. And this was the one with the Turner crap, right? God, that was brutal.

 

XIII: I can't think of a single show where one match saved it as much as Bret/Austin saved this. It's incredible to think that you had quite possibly the match of the decade in the middle of such a huge pile of horseshit. The only other match even half worth watching was the Ahmed/LOD/NOD street fight. I don't think any of the title matches got up to **, and the IC match with Rocky was probably the worst major title match in the history of WM.

 

XIV: Now this was a good show. Not great, but good. Austin/HBK was a miracle considering how bad Shawn's back was, the first UT/Kane meeting was pretty good for what it was, the tag title match was fun. No real complaints.

 

XV: OH MY GOD this was a horrible show. This is what I consider to be the worst Mania in history. Russo may have produced great TV, but he had no idea how to put a major card together. Nothing made sense, the matches were complete shit for the most part, there was a simulated hanging (a SIMULATED HANGING!), and considering what Rock and Austin would give us in the future, the main event was a pretty big disappointment. Let us bury the tapes and never, EVER speak of this show again.

[bob_barron 0]

The argument that Wrestlemania X is just two great matches and nothing else doesn't hold water to me.

 

Yes, everything outside of Bret v. Owen and HBK v. Razor isn't that great, but those two matches are two of the best matches of the decade and arguably two of the best matches of all time, with HBK v. Razor being one of the most influential matches of all time.

 

There's 90:37 of wrestling on that show, 39:08 of that is two of the best matches ever.

 

Plus, Savage v. Crush is fun and while the match isn't a classic, I love everything about Bret v. Yoko.

[Smues 0]

the IC match with Rocky was probably the worst major title match in the history of WM.

 

If it was, it held that record for like an hour, because Sid/Undertaker was much worse.

[King Cucaracha 0]

The only thing I've got to note about WM XII- I miss the logo being imposed onto the ring mat. I can't remember any other event that WWF ever did this at and it looked really striking watching it the other day.

 

I agree with HTQ on the Goldust thing too (I guess I had more than one thing to note after all). Goldust was such an incredible character for the time period. For me, when Piper stripped him down to his Rocky Horror Picture Show attire, that's the moment the original Goldust jumped the shark. It wasn't just goofy, I think it really took the character too far too soon.

 

 

And I admit to being really into the HHH/Chyna double turn at WM XV when it happened. What can I say, I was young and impressionable.

[The Mist of Kwang 0]

I'm thinking XI doesn't get enough credit for the inclusion of Eli and Jacob Blu.

[Ed Wood Caulfield 0]

The only thing I've got to note about WM XII- I miss the logo being imposed onto the ring mat. I can't remember any other event that WWF ever did this at and it looked really striking watching it the other day.

 

They later cut the ring mat up into little pieces and sold the pieces at extremely high prices.

[PILLS! PILLS! PILLS! 0]

Yeah, I remember that. You got the piece of the canvas on a plaque along with the photo of whomever won the main event.

[King Kamala 0]

Roundtable Part IV in a half hour----we have a slot open and the first poster to PM me with their AIM screenname gets it!

[CanadianChris 0]

the IC match with Rocky was probably the worst major title match in the history of WM.

 

If it was, it held that record for like an hour, because Sid/Undertaker was much worse.

I wasn't really thinking of quality. The very concept of Rocky vs. The Sultan for the IC title at a Mania was just an embarrassment, without even going and putting on that abortion of a match.

[cabbageboy 0]

Thoughts on these shows:

 

WM XI: This is a boring show. There's some actual decent work on it to prevent it from being the worst WM ever (Shawn/Diesel, LT/Bigelow) and not much is actively awful, but I was so down on the overall direction of the WWF during this era.

 

WM XII: I have never cared for the Iron Man match. Didn't at the time, with my HBK hatred of this era well documented on this board. Austin/Savio is a decent match, though they had better. The parking lot brawl is silly and went nowhere. But here's why I didn't care about the Iron Man: It was 60+ minutes long going to a finish that EVERYONE on the face of this earth knew was coming. Anyone who was a wrestling fan in my HS wasn't looking forward to that match since everyone knew Shawn was winning, because he had to.

 

WM XIII: Am I the only one who finds this PPV underrated? One of the best matches ever on this show in Austin/Bret. A really fun 6 man hardcore brawl with LOD/Ahmed vs. the Nation. And what the hell, I even kinda enjoy Sid/UT since it was nice to see Taker get a decent title win and run. There's really not a lot different between this show and the much more celebrated WM X.

 

WM XIV: Very fun show, not a ton of amazing wrestling but it's like WM XI with much better build and angles. This was Russo style stuff done to perfection with people reigning him in and doing a proper build to matches. Probably the best Outlaws match on this show as well, the dumpster match vs. Foley/Funk.

 

WM XV: I recall getting this PPV at the time and thought ECW's PPV the previous week was a better show. Think about that one for a minute. Really just has a fun main event with Austin/Rock (topped by Backlash), a ton of bad overbooked Russo antics otherwise, and the worst HIAC ever. Not the worst WM ever to me though, it at least moves quickly and is worth an occasional viewing.

[King Kamala 0]

WM XIII: Am I the only one who finds this PPV underrated? One of the best matches ever on this show in Austin/Bret. A really fun 6 man hardcore brawl with LOD/Ahmed vs. the Nation. And what the hell, I even kinda enjoy Sid/UT since it was nice to see Taker get a decent title win and run. There's really not a lot different between this show and the much more celebrated WM X.

Um yeah, cabbage, there is a big difference. X is a borderline Top Five WrestleMania and XIII is a borderline Bottom Five Mania. Let me elaborate; X has two bonafide classics, a virtually flawless match in Bret-Owen and a match that was way way ahead of its time in '94 and helped pave the way for future Mania spotfests in HBK/Razor. Plus you have a nice brawl between Savage and Crush that was basically Savage's defacto WWF sendoff. The rest of the card isn't very good, I grant you that, but none of the other matches are given a substantial amount of time except Yokozuna/Luger (which is admittedly one of the worst World title matches at a Mania). The undercard isn't great but it's kind of forgettable and nothing really screams out "This sucks" besides the one aforementioned match

 

XIII also boasts a classic in Austin/Bret but has maybe one other match that breaks the *** barrier (Chicago Street Fight) and unlike X, the meaningless undercard matches do overstay their welcome. Triple H/Goldust get almost fifteen minutes, the pointless Owen and Davey Boy Smith/Mankind and Vader match goes 16. Their are several really sucky matches including possibly the worst WWF Intercontinental title match to take place at a Mania, the worst opener at a Mania, and the worst main event in Mania history.