Unforgiven Results and early match ratings...

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Besides, people always tend to overrate PPV matches right after/during the show. Wrestlemania is a clear example - people were heralding Michaels vs. Jericho and Brock vs. Angle as MOTYC, when in reality they weren't nearly that good.

[Styles 0]

I don't think I overrated anything. My top match was ***1/4.

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

This is nonsense.

 

RRR, you say you don't place much value on the opinions of those who ordered the show - you don't really care what they think, because you know, no matter what anyone else says, it was a shitty show and you can't bear to watch shit like the shitty show everyone else watched. You argue that those who watched said shitty show and enjoyed it are actually experiencing cognitive dissonance, the only possible way people who watched said shitty show that you did not watch could possibly justify enjoying it.

 

You're right, I was wrong: you aren't elitist. You are actually close-minded, arrogant AND elitist.

 

Not everyone likes the same things as you, granted, but that doesn't mean you suddenly have the power to act like an asshole concerning our opinions.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I find it funny though that your interested in hearing opinions of the show, but not from those who actually ordered it. So in other words you just want to hear negative opinions.

 

Completely untrue, if I had no interest for people who ordered it I wouldn't be discussing it right now with people who ordered it, now would I? But then again, when the best I get is "Parts of it was entertaining" or "Considering how bad it looked" or "it wasn't bad", there's not much you can do with that kind of sugar coated BS. I don't know what else to call ordering WWE ppvs (esp Unforgiven) other than settling for less... cause really, is there anything worse?

 

My main problem was not the quality of the show but your elitist critisism of those who didn't mind ordering it.

 

So are you criticizing me for criticizing?

 

I'm a communications major by the way, thanks for the review

 

That'll be $20 for Tutor Fees... a much better deal than this ppv

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

RRR, you say you don't place much value on the opinions of those who ordered the show - you don't really care what they think, because you know, no matter what anyone else says, it was a shitty show and you can't bear to watch shit like the shitty show everyone else watched.

 

I do care what people thought of the PPV, I just don't place much value in what they say. That is possible. If I asked a child what he/she thought about of a certain situation, I won't put much stock in it because it's from a childs POV, but then again, it's from a childs POV and thus worth noting for that very reason.

 

You argue that those who watched said shitty show and enjoyed it are actually experiencing cognitive dissonance, the only possible way people who watched said shitty show that you did not watch could possibly justify enjoying it.

 

No, I said that there is such a thing called Cognitive Dissonance and that people tend to become biased towards things they purchase - which was in response to the validity issue between people who have seen the show and people who haven't. You are drawing your own conclusions from that statement; you might want to take that "thinking before you post your opinion" suggestion to heart.

 

 

You're right, I was wrong: you aren't elitist. You are actually close-minded, arrogant AND elitist.

 

Well, as long as I am right

 

Not everyone likes the same things as you, granted, but that doesn't mean you suddenly have the power to act like an asshole concerning our opinions.

 

It's not about liking the same things as me - it's about liking, paying and supporting something bad. This PPV had no possible way of being good given it's card, and anyone who purchased it knowing the card is stupid for doing so.

[JHawk 0]

See, arguments like this on why I go to a bar and spend 20 bucks on food and alcohol rather than 35 on the show itself.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

I like (sarcasm) how Rudo has trolled this thread into something else completely.

 

Fuck, if I wanted to see two men beat the shit out of each other with punches that would crush my skull, I'd be into boxing.

 

But instead I'm into men pretending to hit each other fighting over Japanese shampoo commercials and "ass cream" with over-the-top comedy. WWE has never promised to give you more than that, and that's what they're giving you now (although they certainly aren't planning it out as well as they used to.)

 

If you want something physical grueling you can admire for the rest of your life, you aren't interested in the WWE. Period. Stop biting peoples' heads off because they don't share your opinion.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Oh come on, the WWE had a perfectly good match between Angle and Taker on Smackdown a few weeks ago. They obviously can work something good if they tried... they just aren't trying... and yet people still support it. Why? I still don't know... all I get is "nothing better to do", "I had the money", and "there was the possibility of something good", all of which can describe playing around with someone elses feces...

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

I do care what people thought of the PPV, I just don't place much value in what they say.  That is possible.  If I asked a child what he/she thought about of a certain situation, I won't put much stock in it because it's from a childs POV, but then again, it's from a childs POV and thus worth noting for that very reason.

 

So you're making an analogy comparing those who enjoyed the show to children. How very open-minded, not at all arrogant, and non-elitist of you.

 

No, I said that there is such a thing called Cognitive Dissonance and that people tend to become biased towards things they purchase - which was in response to the validity issue between people who have seen the show and people who haven't.  You are drawing your own conclusions from that statement; you might want to take that "thinking before you post your opinion" suggestion to heart.

 

Okay, maybe I did jump the gun a bit. But I think posting the thing about cognitive dissonance came off as an allusion to those who enjoyed the show, hence the gun jumping.

 

Well, as long as I am right

 

Sure.

 

It's not about liking the same things as me - it's about liking, paying and supporting something bad.  This PPV had no possible way of being good given it's card, and anyone who purchased it knowing the card is stupid for doing so.

 

YOUR opinion is that, without actually seeing it and judging it, it must be bad, and anyone who bought the show with previous knowledge of the card is stupid, therefore it IS about liking the same things as you.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

So you're making an analogy comparing those who enjoyed the show to children. How very open-minded, not at all arrogant, and non-elitist of you.

 

And you avoided the point made. I wanted to know what a certain section of WWE fans thought of the show, I won't put much weight into what they thought but it's still relevant for what it is - initial reaction and response written from WWE consumers. This information can be used in a variety of ways, none of which are particularly relevant to this discussion so I won't elaborate... unless you really want me to.

 

Okay, maybe I did jump the gun a bit. But I think posting the thing about cognitive dissonance came off as an allusion to those who enjoyed the show, hence the gun jumping.

 

Well it was, but it wasn't the _only_ reason anything was done - I just brought it up as a possible objection to the issue at hand.

 

Sure.

 

C'mon, that was a brilliant line. It reflected arrogance and closed-mindedness along with vanity - qualities that you said I had (Vanity and Elitism having similar properties). "Sure" doesn't really do that comment justice.

 

*turns back to Droptoe*

 

C'mon, give it a pat.

 

YOUR opinion is that, without actually seeing it and judging it, it must be bad, and anyone who bought the show with previous knowledge of the card is stupid, therefore it IS about liking the same things as you.

 

But the card alone is enough for any able-minded person to know that the show is bad. How can you say that any of those matches would be good or worth the price paid? If you actually like that crap, you're stupid and you should be ashamed. It's the equivalent of a monkey playing with its feces (notice how I keep relating this show with shit?)/

[EMAXSAUN 0]

Dudleyz/Resistance & Conway: **1/2 - Standard Table Fare

 

Test/Steiner: ** - As much as people shit on this match, it wasn't half bad

 

HBK/Orton: *** - Good match until the TERRIBLE finish

 

Lita/Trish v. Molly/Gail: **1/4 - Decent enough womens match

 

Kane/McMahon: *** - A fun match, really

 

Jericho/RVD/Christian: ***3/4 - MOTN

 

Announcer Match: DUD

 

HHH/Goldberg: ** - Eh

[Guest Boomer Sprinklespax]

And you avoided the point made.  I wanted to know what a certain section of WWE fans thought of the show, I won't put much weight into what they thought but it's still relevant for what it is - initial reaction and response written from WWE consumers.  This information can be used in a variety of ways, none of which are particularly relevant to this discussion so I won't elaborate... unless you really want me to.

 

I didn't avoid the point, I was simply trying to say that you made your point in a close-minded, arrogant, elitist way, which is seemingly typical of the way you act if this debate is any indication.

 

Well it was, but it wasn't the _only_ reason anything was done - I just brought it up as a possible objection to the issue at hand.

 

So I didn't jump the gun at all. Excellent.

 

C'mon, that was a brilliant line.  It reflected arrogance and closed-mindedness along with vanity -  qualities that you said I had (Vanity and Elitism having similar properties).  "Sure" doesn't really do that comment justice.

 

*turns back to Droptoe*

 

C'mon, give it a pat.

 

Actually, I just didn't really have anything to say, so I responded in a way that I thought would be non-confrontational, because I'm not really trying to confront you on anything other than your attitude. Apparently, my "sure" bothered you somehow (pardon me all to hell), and reflected my own close-mindedness, arrogance, and vanity. I fail to see the connection there, all I see is someone eager to make himself seem smarter to everyone by inferring lots of things about my personality.

 

From one word.

 

Sure, whatever.

 

There's two, let's see what you can do with that.

 

 

But the card alone is enough for any able-minded person to know that the show is bad.  How can you say that any of those matches would be good or worth the price paid? If you actually like that crap, you're stupid and you should be ashamed.  It's the equivalent of a monkey playing with its feces (notice how I keep relating this show with shit?)/

 

I paid $5 to get into a bar and watch the show with some friends, enjoyed a few things, and therefore I believe I got my money's worth. I am not going to be ashamed about it, no matter what your narrow view dictates, and I know I'm not stupid, so your statement is without merit.

 

And yes, I noticed your godlike and masterful use of metaphor, asshole.

[Guest neodragonsan]

Cognitive Dissonance is a post-purchase anxiety people go through where they want to be told that they made the right decision - where they want justification. I find that when I go to see a movie in the theatres that I want that movie to do well in the box office and with critics. So that my decision can be given worth. I have a certain bias towards that film because I gave it my time and money. So it's not exactly the most objective of things.

And some of us go to see a movie without looking at what the critics thought. We go in to form our own opinions, and don't give a damn what others thought of it.

 

I ordered it, I liked some of it, only true crap was the announcers match...Oh well, it was $18, big deal...one of those things where I can't order MMA (no TV, VCR, or DVD player, by choice), so I watch what I can find.

[Jack_Bauer 0]

I can't believe people are criticising people for ordering PPVs. Why the hell shouldn't they ?

 

'Oh it means you think the booking is great ?'

 

NO ! It means you think you might get two or three good matches and I think that Unforgiven delivered that.

 

Believe what you want, but don't criticise people for buying a PPV just because you don't like the product.

[geniusMoment 0]

RRR you seem to be under the impression that WWE will change if enough people stop going to events and buying ppvs. I fully believe Vince will go out of business before he listens to the fans, after all he is a McMahon. Also you seem to believe that if smarks stop watching and ordering ppvs then it will make a difference to overall profit. To me this is flawed logic as many of the stupid marks probably loved the ppv, especially shanes bump.

If I believe nothing will change, or in other words lost all hope why should I deprive myself of seeing the ppv. I have plenty of money.

In other words what you want people to do is stop watching and going to events until change occurs, guess what it never is going to change.

[Guest RollingSambos]

Dudleys vs. La Reistance : ** 1/2

Test vs. Steiner : **

Orton vs. HBK : ****

Kim/Molly vs. Trish/Lita : Didn't watch it

Shane vs. Kane : **

Y2J vs. Christian vs. RVD : *** 1/2

JR/King vs. Coach/Snow : *

HHH vs. Goldberg : *

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Dudleys vs. La Reistance : * 1/2

 

Test vs. Steiner : **

 

Orton vs. HBK : **1/2

 

Kim/Molly vs. Trish/Lita : *1/2

 

Shane vs. Kane : **

 

Y2J vs. Christian vs. RVD : **

JR/King vs. Coach/Snow : Big Fucking Stinky DUD

 

HHH vs. Goldberg : *1/2

 

 

Overall: Pile of shit.

[Fökai 0]

Stop biting peoples' heads off because they don't share your opinion.

Yeah, maybe I should share your distorted opinion of the IC title match -

 

IC Title: *1/2

 

That takes the title as worst WWE non-gimmick match I've seen in my life, beating Nathan Jones' one debut match and Benoit vs Rhyno 1.

[PLAGIARISM! 0]

Nothin I'd spend money on, but I'm not gonna complain about the results, save Kane's gigantic struggle to beat Shane fucking McMahon.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Plus- when you buy the PPV you're telling the folks at the WWE that you think booking like this is a good idea. 

 

Don't accept crap- the WWE has the talent to be better than this- too bad it's all on Smackdown.

True, but by ordering PPVs you are keeping revenue in the company so they can misuse wrestlers like Spanky and Tommy Dreamer but still make sure they can have a decent salary for doing something that they like.

Or you could stop ordering all together, and all those misused guys won't have a job anymore.....

[clean rob 0]

Dudleys vs. La Reistance : ** - Conway's table bump looked nearly as bad as Spikes, IMO...ooh, that was clever!

Test vs. Steiner : ** - for good booking but another pretty bad match.

Orton vs. HBK : ***1/2 - despite not liking either HBK or Orton, this was the match I got most into during the PPV, I didn't know who was going to go over and the wrestling was solid. 1/2* knocked off for the ending.

Kim/Molly vs. Trish/Lita : 1/2* - even worse than I was expecting. I was hoping Lita would be less sloppy, instead she has gotten even worse.

Shane vs. Kane : **1/2 - mildy exciting spotfest, did exactly what it set out to do.

Y2J vs. Christian vs. RVD : **1/2 - I was expecting more really, match didn't seem to flow too well to me, although picked up in the last quarter and I marked out loads for the electric chair/powerbomb spot.

JR/King vs. Coach/Snow : 1/2* for the piledriver spot and Y2J's promo.

HHH vs. Goldberg : * - at least it was reasonably short.

 

Wow, RRR really doesn't like WWE much, does he? Err, why are you even bothering to be in this forum?

[Use Your Illusion 0]

RRR - Conspiracy Victim.

 

He only wants what is right!

[Guest ManKinnd]

See RRR, Unforgiven produced 3 ***+ matches from where I sit, and that is not bad at all. So I can justify my purchase with that.

I didn't buy a bad PPV last night.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

How the hell was anything on that card even approaching ***?

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

La Resistance/Conway vs. Dudley's - Match was the best of their feud, but that isn't saying much. - **

 

HBK vs. Orton - This match was entertaining. Orton is FINALLY starting to improve but still has a overly boring personality. Match was good though. ***

 

Test vs. Steiner - Well, this is exactly what I expected......nothing. *1/4

 

Kim/Molly vs. Lita/Trish - Typical women's match. *1/2

 

Jericho vs. RVD vs. Christian - This was probably the best match, but once again the WWE refuses to have a clean finish and actually strongly book a champion other than HHH. ***1/4

 

Coach/Snow vs. Ross/King - This match was horrible, there was no commentating as well? WTF? DUD

 

Goldberg vs. HHH - Well at least HHH finally did the job. Now we all get the pleasure of witnessing SuckBerg as champion. **

[SamoaRowe 0]

From what I saw:

 

Kane/Shane: **3/4

 

Jericho vs RVD vs Christian: **

 

Announcers: 1/2

 

Goldberg vs HHH: **

[CanadianChris 0]

How the hell was anything on that card even approaching ***?

Got me.

 

I had it thusly:

 

Dudz/La Res & Conway: 1/2*

 

HBK/Orton: **. Finish was horrible.

 

Test/Steiner: 3/4*

 

Women's tag: *

 

Kane/Shane: 1/2*. Booking was atrocious, and another bad finish. The Holy Shit bump wasn't anything no one's seen done before - and better.

 

IC triple threat: *3/4. Boring as shit, and another dumb finish, but some decent spots near the end.

 

Announcers match: -* That's MINUS ONE. Offensive.

 

HHH/FGB: *

 

We have another contender to the throne of WORST PPV EVER.

[King Cucaracha 0]

RRR...your arguement is hurting my head. You didn't order the PPV, but say it was shit. You criticise the people who bought the PPV, saying it was shit. But you didn't see the PPV, so your opinion has no ground. If you watched it, and had facts to back up your statement of it being shit, then people probably wouldn't agrue with you.

 

Oh, and I am not stupid because I didn't pay a penny

 

 

Anyway, ratings...

 

Maven vs Stevie Night Heat - *1/2. Decent enough for Heat. Which is funny, seeing as I'm a big Velocity fan all of a sudden. (Tazz plus Matthews=gold) Maven's upcoming heel turn is so blatant, it's getting old. They need to turn him quick.

 

Most noteable for- Victoria's legdrop thing and Stevie being great as ever.

 

La Resistance/Conway vs. Dudleyz - *1/4...standard table stuff, predictable 3-D spot, shock ending.

 

Most noteable for- The Dudleyz almost doing to Conway what La Res did to Spike...if there wasn't another table there, Conway would have got the same landing as Spike did.

 

HBK vs. Orton - **1/2 I'm a fan of both guys. Yeah, I LIKE Orton. So shoot me. Decent enough match, HBK carrying it if I'm honest. The ending was way too murky though IMO. I thought Flair had screwed up at first.

 

Most noteable for- Flair sweating too much And a technical fault with Sky Sports cutting out a minute or so of my match.

 

 

Test vs. Steiner - *1/4 I actually quite enjoyed this. I say quite. Steiner messed up a double underhook powerbomb...but all in all, it wasn't too bad.

 

Most noteable for- Stacy. Her involvement was the centre of the match.

 

 

Kim/Molly vs. Lita/Trish - * Not bad. I didn't actually watch it for the most part. What I saw was ok enough.

 

Most noteable for- Litasault.

 

 

Kane vs Shane - 1/4* I usually can bare Shane matches. This one wasn't one of them.

 

 

Jericho vs. RVD vs. Christian - *3/4. Oh my god. How can anyone give this three stars. This bored the hell out of me, and the crowd. Was it me, or was this WAY too long. The finish was a typical cowardly heel finish. For those of you who don't like that...tough shit. Christian plays a cowardly character. That's how his matches should end.

 

Most noteable for- The cool powerbomb/electric chair spot that woke the crowd up a bit.

 

 

Coach/Snow vs. Ross/King - 1/2* Oh, gotta see those puppies! The Snowman and The Coach just rule. Crap match, but it wasn't supposed to be a mat classic. And to RRR moaning about this being in the semi-main event position...it fitted in with the storyline. If you had watched before casting your ever-correct eye, you'd realise this.

 

Most noteable for- JR seeing fit to commentate certain parts of the match. Funny stuff.

 

 

Goldberg vs. HHH - ** I liked this match. I'm not a Fuck Goldberger. I can see Goldberg tried here. And the crowd cheered for him, which sadly is a plus.

 

Most noteable for- Goldberg selling the sledgehammer shot. I expected much more bitching about that when I got on here.

 

 

Overall- For what it was, it was decent. But still...nothing anywhere near special. Nowhere near the worst PPV ever though.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

I didn't pay for it and was entertained to a good extent. Better than I expected.

 

Maven/Stevie - *1/2

 

Table Match - * - Didn't like it much at all

 

HBK/Orton - ***1/4 - Orton's best match ever from what I can recall

 

Test/Steiner - * - Crap but crowd was into it

 

Divas - *1/2 - I don't care about these women's matches at all

 

Shane/Kane - **1/4 - HORRIBLE booking but decent action

 

RVD/Y2J/Xtian - ***1/2 - MOTN. Too bad the crowd being dead really hurt it

 

Commentators Tag Match - DUD - JR's expresison at the end which looked liek a pig crying saved it from -*

 

HHH/Goldberg - *1/2 - FINALLY HHH jobs and CLEAN

 

Overall: Better than Badd Blood and No Way Out. Right around Judgment Day and Summerslam/

[CanadianChris 0]

SK ratings for Unforgiven:

 

Table match: *1/2

 

Test/Steiner: 1/2*

 

HBK/Orton: **3/4

 

Women's tag: **1/2

 

Kane/Shane: *1/2

 

IC triple threat: *3/4

 

Announcers: -**

 

HHH/FGB: *1/2

 

A little higher in spots than I gave it, but still pretty bad overall.