To those of you with a Torch subscription

[Guest Loss]

Hook us up on the Nash interview. The 13-minute audio thing was uploaded on the VIP section today. Tell us what was said if you can. Thanks.

[JoeDirt 0]

Got this off another board:

 

"Wade Keller: Why did you agree to work for TNA? Certainly with the millions you've made working for WCW and the WWF, along with your rep for being a good steward of your earnings, and all of the injuries you've been through, at first glance it seems like wrestling for TNA is something that wouldn't be worth your while.

 

Kevin Nash: Jeff (Jarrett) is a good friend of mine. When I was finishing up my deal with Turner, he came to me and talked about working for them. I just told him, "I've got to go to New York. I‘ve got to do this." So I kind of left him high and dry. I think he was kind of hurt by the fact that I didn't go and try to help him get this thing off the ground. He's a friend, he's a good friend. When he called me they were doing it in Nashville and I just didn't want to fly. I don't need the money anymore. I mean, my ego is fine with wrestling. When I first got into the back of a car, the first trip I ever made was with Sid, Dutch Mantel, the Iron Sheik, and myself. That was my first trip. And I've got the rental car. I'm picking up Sid. I smell pot in the back seat. I look back there and there's the Iron Sheik smoking a joint. (Imitating Sheik): "Ah, baby, this is hot sh--. Who's the big jabroni?" I said, "I'm not a jabroni, Sheik." He said, "Of course you're not, I'm not talking about you." (laughs) That's my first road trip. That night we partied a little bit and we're driving and that's when you'd drive 250 every night to the next town. Dutch said to me, "Nash, what do you want out of your career?" I said, "I just want someone, somewhere down the line, some guy in the car say, ‘You know, Nash wasn't a bad worker.'" That's all I wanted. And I think anybody that's been out there (in the ring) with me can't say "he sucks." I'm not bad. I'm not great. I'm not bad. Am I limited? F--- yeah. Do I know my limitations? Yeah.

 

Keller: So it‘s the twilight of your career and you've decided you can contribute to TNA. What can TNA contribute to the industry at this point?

 

Nash: The biggest problem is wrestling's stock is in such a down mode right now. Wrestling's not cool. So hopefully it can stay alive until that next hump comes.

 

Keller: Raw's doing 4.0s. At least in that category, it's not too far off from the peak. It's not 2.7, it's not 2.2.

 

Nash: And the cable audience is much bigger now than years ago. And I look at it and say from a standpoint of the business in general, there's not that buzz. Wrestling goes through periods where it becomes pretty hot. I hope TNA can stay around until it becomes hot and somebody picks it up.

 

Keller: Paul Heyman took ECW at a very low point in wrestling and because of what he did, he made it work because he had a new concept. I don't see that with TNA. I don't see that TNA has a grassroots inspiration to bring wrestling into a new age with a new concept. Instead, it seems to be recycling old ideas along with a mix of the pretty good X Division and that type of thing. Is that enough for it survive?

 

Nash: No. I think that's the biggest problem it has right now. It's not an alternative because it's not more cutting edge than what's on the other program. I realized the other day that they can't show cleavage at 4 o'clock on Fox Sports Net, so you are really limited in what you can run storyline-wise and violence-wise. You're in a real sh-- timeslot. But, the first thing I would do if I were to be involved in any part of the creative is to see what are our parameters. I'd ask that all the time. Back in WCW when I was booker, I'd have the standards and practices guy come in and he'd say, "No, no, no." Then I'd try to figure out how to outsmart the guy and get the sh-- in. I'd say, "How about this?" He'd say, "That'll work." But that's the whole thing with TNA. I don't know what their parameters are.

 

Just the last couple of weeks it's gotten to the point where I went, "This doesn't work for me and I really don't need the money." The 81 mile drive is getting really long and it ain't working. I told Jeff last week, "I don't know how much longer I'm going to do this." Billy (Gunn) grabbed my leg and turned my foot when he rammed me off the pole and my shin hit the f--in' pole and it's all infected now. I've got a bone infection. I'm on antibiotics and all this other sh--. I'm 45, and I'll be 46 in July. I got five f---in' grand for the last PPV. I could pretty much sit at home and say, "F--- this." It's not worth it. I had my match with Jeff. The fans, I think, went, "Wow, he's still got a little bit left in the gas tank." The thing was, they don't understand if they watch it back, I got you! It was smoke and mirrors. (Jeff) created all the movement and I sold my ass off and we ran every f---in' obstacle we could. We used run-ins and everything we could possibly throw in.

 

I had asked (Jeff) if I could have a couple of his matches on DVD that he had done lately against Monty and a couple of the other guys. He asked if he could get my Badd Blood and my match with Shawn (Michaels) in Omaha. He had those on DVD and I had his matches. We sat down and went, "What do you see?" I looked at him and said, "What the f---. I've got a legal pad right here. I've written down every f---in' prop we could use and I had them on one side of the page and on the other side were all of the human bodies we could use." He goes, "Well, what've you got?" And we just took all of those pieces and plugged them into a match and that's what we did. It was the same thing with Billy. I can get 45 minutes out of a screwdriver! (laughs) I don't think anyone's ever done that before.

 

Keller: So are you announcing you've given your notice? Are you announcing you're thinking of it? What's the bottom line of this?

 

Nash: I don't know if I'll be at the next TV right now. It's not fun. If it's not fun, then I don't need to do it.

 

Keller: If you had booking influence or control, could you make it fun?

 

Nash: I don't know. That's a huge commitment to make. Now you're basically saying, Lee Iacocca sucks and I'm going to put out a car that's going to be a World Car. I don't know since I haven't been around and haven't pushed those buttons, I don't know if the machine can do that. I've got stuff going on in Hollywood to consider. My agent earlier today told me I'm good in "The Longest Yard" and I'm going to get other work (in Hollywood). He said, "You stand out in it. You're going to get work off of it." Okay, fine, great. I just finished another movie about two months ago. That's three in all. I've been able to get steady work and do parts here and there. I've got one in April. I've got another probably in September. It's a scene here, a scene there, but I mean, I'm working acting-wise and that's really fulfilling. That's nice. It's not at the level that Duane (Johnson, The Rock) is doing, thank God, so I can still live my life and not worry about my kid being snatched. I look at the fame a lot of these guys have and I just think, "I don't know if I want that." I do like to be able to go to the rental car place and get a premium upgrade on a luxury model (because I'm recognized). That's good enough for me [laughs]. Anything more than that, I don't need. I also like getting a two bedroom for the one bedroom price at the Sheraton. That's fine with me.

 

Keller: You are announced for the next PPV main event. Is that at least an almost-for-sure commitment?

 

Nash: No. It's not. Because to me, it's… I mean, I'm 0-5. Four of those were with Dusty (Rhodes) booking. I think in that time his son is 5-0. It gets to the point where, you know, I'm not a mark, but I can't work for a company that books matches, but doesn't book finishes … If you saw the booking of Trytan vs. Monty Brown, his booking is still cutting edge [laughs]. Mother f---, I saw that sh-- that night and I went, "You know what, I don't care what (Christopher) Daniels and A.J. (Styles) do after it, it's not going to pull this pay-per-view out. That is a f--in' back and to the left Kennedy head-shot where it's the emergency room and we're just going to make you comfortable until you die - because it didn't matter what happened after that, let alone our f---ed up finish and everything else that happened.

 

Keller: With Trytan, it was a gimmick with a lot of hype, but nothing beyond that.

 

Nash: The thing with him is this. This is my whole thing. You can print this or not print this. If I was booking that whole show, you know that Monty is going to turn at the end of the night, which nobody was smarted up to.

 

Keller: Including Monty?

 

Nash: Monty knew. But nobody else was smartened up. It was one of those "let's work the boys" things that always gets so over with the boys. Yeah, work us, mother f---er. So, it's like, because if they would have told me this ahead of time, I could have f--in' helped the situation. So if Monty's gonna turn, then why doesn't Trytan beat Monty in 30 seconds? All right. So you're at home going, "Mother f---er! That big dude beat Monty!" So now he spears Dallas Page in the finish and you say to yourself, "Well, f--, did he do that because he got beat in 30 seconds? Why did he do that?" And Monty becomes Sting. Monty becomes an enigma. You don't come out the next Tuesday and go "Ha! Ha! Ha! Monty was in my corner" and then point to your head like you're smart. F---, what are we, back in Memphis? I'm waiting for Dundee to f---in' take me and give me a f---in' bulldog. I mean, what the f---? Where are we at? We're doing rural wrestling and we're on Fox Sports Net. We're in the 27 largest metropolitan areas and that's it. We should be doing urban wrestling. We're doing rural. Dusty sits in the back of a pick-up truck with hay bails. Hey, Dusty, quick clue. A little something from me to you. Become Fat Joe, have a couple of black bi---es, and be in an Escalade. then we'll do a number (a high rating). What the f--'s going on? I'm 46 years old and I'm the hippest guy in the room. What the f--- is that?

 

Keller: The hipness of TNA is a major issue with them and always has been. They seem oblivious to it, though.

 

Nash: I mean, my whole thing has always been this. All right, I'll talk to guys. I was watching BET the other day. Who watches BET? Well, I do, because they got really raw underground rap guys who come on there. You can get some really incredible ideas. There's a magazine called Urb. It's an urban magazine. Nobody reads that magazine. I get script to it. I read it. There are so many things in so many magazines. When was the last time these guys watched Real Life, or (paid attention to pop culture). "I don't watch that sh--," they say. You know why? Once again it's because you're in the wrestling bubble. You don't understand. Right now, they're doing the thing with Batista. Batista's starting to pose like (famous bodybuilder) Frank Zane. I told Vince (McMahon) when I was there a long time ago, you've got to realize that in this culture that we're in, the two biggest babyfaces are a crooked cop on "The Shield" (an FX cop show) and Tony Soprano (on HBO's "The Sopranos"). Those are the babyfaces in our society. Anything that isn't near that, f--- it. That's it. Those are your babyfaces. And the heel is Glen Close. She comes in to control the f---in' corrupt cop and she's a f---in' heel. There's your society. That's what we've got to book with. That's the norms we've got to go with. I've got people telling me, "I wish they'd pull the plug on this f---in' broad and shut the f--- up, I'm tired of it." There's no humanity left in this world. To me, this is awfully surreal with this whole situation so close to Easter. It's pretty weird. She should be dead by now. If you didn't give me water for six days, I'd die. Why isn't this lady dead. Maybe you should put the deal back in.

 

Okay, back to the point. If you knew you were turning Monty heel at the end of the night, why wouldn't you let the big kid kill him in 30 seconds? Let Monty hit Page and let him be an enigma. Why did he do it? Did he do it because he got beat? That way it elevates the kid, the kid can go on a tear, you can do the Goldberg thing with him and protect him, because there's nowhere for guys to work anymore. There was no thought put into it. He's a good kid and now he's f---ed. Now he's Oz. I felt that. I've been there. When you've been there as a big guy and Monty's telling you to throw chops and his chops are the sh--s because you don't throw chops, it's a mess. He came back and I asked him, "What was up with those chops?" He said, "Well, Monty called them." I said, "F---, when I worked with him, I would have called back ‘dropdown and blow me if you're going to do what the f-- I call.' You've got to protect yourself, dog." To me, the only way that guy can get over is if a guy like either (Kevin) Sullivan or somebody comes in and says [imitating Sullivan]: "Brotha! I need to get you over!" You need somebody who's demonic. I told him, "You're not me. You're a big gassed up f---er, but you ain't me."

 

Keller: Has A.J. Styles impressed you?

 

Nash: Yeah.

 

Keller: He's not a Vanilla Midget (a term Nash used to demean Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, and others in WCW years ago)?

 

Nash: No. The Vanilla Midget comment, that was at a different point in my life. I've got a much greater appreciation for those guys today. The thing that killed me was watching (Christopher) Daniels and A.J. work before me and Jeff. I mean, you talk about your ass tightening up. I'm watching that going, "F--in' hell, this is good! This is really good!" I'm watching and I'm not even thinking about a spot I've got to do or anything. All I'm thinking is, "This is really good." Then when they went to the time limit, I asked how long they were going after the time limit. They said, "Three minutes." I said, "Well, I guess I should get up and stretch. I'm 45 years old. I gotta quit being a f---in' mark and watching their match." I didn't remember anything we were doing. I figured, though, it'll come to me. We got out there. I don't know if you can see it on tape or not because I haven't watched it back, but I looked at Jeff (in the ring) and said, "I'm blank. Call it!" [laughs]

 

Keller: Do you think Jeff Jarrett should have been NWA Champion this long?

 

Nash: It's almost like Paul (Triple H). I don't see anyone on the horizon that he should drop it to.

 

Keller: How much of a fan of pro wrestling were you growing up?

 

Nash: Huge. We had Big Time Wrestling in Detroit when I was growing up. It had Bobo Brazil, Dick the Bruiser, the Kangaroos. I was a huge fan of Moose Cholak. Igor, (Pampero) Firpo, we had a lot of people that came through there. Detroit was a hot territory. My friends and I used to have wrestling matches in sixth or seventh grade. We'd use foreign objects and end up down in the principal's office. My uncle was a huge wrestling fan. My mom wouldn't let us look at the magazines, so I'd have to take them over to his house. Back then, all the covers of all the mags were nothing but color, nothing but juice. It was juice, juice, juice, juice, juice. I remember the first match I saw, at the Olympia.

 

Keller: Do you remember the first live event you attended?

 

Nash: The first match was Sheik vs. Dick the Bruiser. This was '69, maybe '70. It was a cage and they got double-juice. We were sitting near where the heels came out. We screamed at the Sheik. Eddie (Ed Farhat, the Original Sheik) looked up at us. Nobody got a crimson mask like he did. It was basically blood and eyes. He looked up at us and it was like the devil looked at us. Me and my brother were just horrified. I remembered that. It wasn't until I actually met him years and years later when I was in the business that I was able to put that demon to rest that he was actually not in fact the devil. That's back when there was real heat. It was a different feel.

 

Keller: That story reminds me of Sheik Adnon Al Kaissey (a/k/a General Adnon) when he first arrived in the AWA as a heel wrestler around 1980. He applied the abdominal stretch, but he'd yank on the leg at the same time.

 

Nash: Which Scott Hall stole. He stole that with his Three Legged Man. Scott got it from him.

 

Keller: The look on Sheik Adnon's face scared me. The AWA had heels like Adrian Adonis, Jesse Ventura, Ray "The Crippler" Stevens, Nick Bockwinkel, and Jerry Blackwell, but this guy really scared me. I thought, "Okay, the AWA used to have these bad guys, but this guy came in from the Middle East and he's taking over. This is real!"

 

Nash: That's the way I looked at it. The Kangaroos worked that night and they had a real choreographed kind of match. Even at my age I kind of felt (something wasn't right). But when (Sheik and Bruiser) had the cage match and he went to the foreign object, I thought these guys hated each other, this is real, they're bleeding, and he's the devil.

 

Keller: In the AWA, Mean Gene was scared of Sheik Adnon. Promoter Wally Karbo was scared. There seemed to be a different look in their eyes because they felt they had someone on their hands they couldn't control. That's cool believability. I'm not sure if you can reproduce that today. In 1980 for me and 1970 for you, it worked.

 

Nash: For a real short period of time, I think we had that with the NWO. I really think we did. When we swung baseball bats at guys, the fans didn't know they were gimmicked bats, I think that's why that angle lasted so long. Because the genesis was live. The genesis was real. It was two New York guys coming in and the fans bought it as a takeover. (Eric) Bischoff looked at me and said, "We're on fire." I remember saying, "Eric, you've got to realize you've got two guys from New York that have come in here and the entire country thinks two guys can take over your company. You guys are not strong! [laughs] What the nation is basically saying, ‘F---, two guys from the Yankees came down into the Mets and you're f---ed.' And that was the whole deal. They believed. We were straight off of their (the WWF's) TV. Never before had two top guys who weren't played out jumped over. I mean, people can say what they want about Bischoff, but it was Bischoff's creation and Bischoff's idea. He may never get any credit for this business, but Bischoff had a vision and always had a vision and always will have a vision that is very hip.

 

Keller: I think he does get credit for that. He gets credit for both the good and the bad.

 

Nash: This book came out called the "Death of WCW" and they said basically I was Oswald. I say f--- that. Number one, you've got to think outside of the wrestling bubble. You're talking about Time Warner, the biggest multimedia conglomerate in the world being basically eaten up by a dot-com crash. I know I lost high-six-figures in the dot-com crash. The crash of the dot-coms meant the crash of Time Warner which means anything that's not soluble has got to go. Anything in the red has got to be eaten. It has nothing to do with booking, ratings, anything else. Their stock went from seventy-three to seventeen dollars. People have got to realize that there's more out there to life than the wrestling world. There's a thing called economics. Was I Oswald? No. Was I sitting on the grassy knoll with a rifle? Probably. But you know what, if you create the Frankenstein monster, you have a right to drive a stake into its heart. That's the way I feel. If I caused it to die, if my booking was that rotten - well, I don't think it was, but then I didn't have creative control. Hulk (Hogan) had creative control, I wrote a show, and it's Monday at 6 o'clock and Hulk would show up and he'd say, "Brother, that doesn't work for me." Then we were pretty much screwed.

 

Keller: We'll get into that in great detail later. I want to jump back a few steps first. Did you remain a fan until you became a wrestler or was there a spell in there when you moved on to other things as a teenager?

 

Nash: I got away from it then. I grew big and tall and became a basketball fan. I got away from the sport. Then I came home after playing ball over in Europe. I blew my knee out over there. I came home to Detroit. Some of my buddies would go out every Friday and Saturday night to different places. They came and got me one time and they said, "Hey, we're going to Joe Lewis tonight." I said, "What are we doing?" They said the WWF was in town. I said, "Nah, I don't want to see that crap." I went there and we sat close. We sat probably ten rows back. That's when (Jim) Hellwig was the Dingo Warrior. He hadn't been on TV yet. He was just doing the house shows. He was probably 300 pounds. He was the biggest dude I had probably ever seen in my life. I remember (Ron) Garvin was on the show. Garvin did the stomp. We'd talk sh-- to him. He kind of came over and put us over and kind of got in our faces. Hulk then came down. He was in the main event. It was funny because there I was ten rows back and his charisma and everything else was so gigantic, I thought he was much larger than I was. Hulk was that larger than life. He really was that guy. I was 45 feet from him and he looked way bigger than I was. They used to say he was 6-10 and 345 pounds. When I finally met him in WWE in '93, he was like 6-6, 275. I said to myself, all right, he got me! [laughs] Good marketing ploy. I bought it. I'd say the world bought it. That's my history of pro wrestling as a fan. I always was a fan and always will be a fan. I don't watch as much as I used to because I've got a lot of things going on in my life, but I will always be a wrestling fan.

 

Keller: So you saw this WWF show. You were impressed with Hogan. You saw Warrior. Was it at that point that you thought maybe this was something you wanted to do.

 

Nash: As I said, I tore my knee up playing ball over in Europe. I was just rehabbing it and basically looking for something to do. Not to be a dick or anything, but I thought to myself, I'm a much better athlete than 90 percent of the guys in that ring even with a bad leg. That's the one thing people don't understand. Nobody knows the extent of the knee injuries I had before I broke in in '89. I was told by three or four doctors, including the (Detroit) Lion's orthopedic Dr. Tigie - he did Billy Simms's rehab on his knee and tried to get him back. He told me, "You're done. You'll never be able to run again, let alone walk without a limp. You've destroyed your knee." And I look at that and 16 years later, I'm still in the ring. I wonder what kind of career I'd have had if I wouldn't have blown my knee out. I had a 39 inch vertical jump when I was in high school. I was an athlete. Basically I came into wrestling and people would always say, "He's lazy!" Dude, (Roddy) Piper's not called lazy and he's crippled, so why am I lazy? [laughs] Because I'm younger? If you're lame, you're lame. I'm doing the best I can. If I flew from Detroit to Denver and my knee swelled up and I went to Nitro that afternoon, guess what, you didn't get a good match because guess what? The Vicodin didn't kick in and I was in a lot of pain and I did the best I could that night. But, if you've ever seen my knees up close, if anybody's ever sat down with me, my friends know, they look at me and they know how bad my knees are. They see me get up in the morning and walk around.

 

Keller: With this bad of a knee injury in basketball, what made you think you'd be able to even try wrestling?

 

Nash: As I said, I had my leg wrapped against the ringpost the other night and (Billy Gunn) didn't turn my foot and throw my calf against the pole, he threw my shin against the pole. He busted my leg wide open at the shin. I got a staph infection. So the thing knotted up about the size of a softball. I put ice on it for three or four days. It wasn't getting any better, so I put a heat pack on it. I put the heat pack in the microwave for three minutes and put it on my leg. I thought, "F---, this is kind of hot." But I just sat there and said, "This thing is really hot. It hurts!" I was going to do 20 minutes hot, 20 minutes cold. I pulled it off and my entire leg was blistered where the thing was. I basically gave myself second degree burns, but my pain tolerance was so high that I just sat and rode it out. I can get my teeth drilled without Novocaine. I've just got a really high pain tolerance. I don't know if it's God's gift or God's curse, but I was able to wrestle with these bad knees.

 

Keller: Who approached you about becoming a wrestler?

 

Nash: It was kind of my idea. I went down to Atlanta. I was working the strip joint up in Detroit. I was working at BT's on Michigan Avenue. It was the hottest strip joint in Detroit. Some guys came in who were running a scam out of Atlanta. I ended up going to Atlanta and running the scam. I ended up getting arrested by the FBI, incarcerated, the whole deal. When everybody talked who needed to talk, I ended up getting let go. The prosecutor got me out of it. And the guy that served my papers told me, "Hey, they're hiring down at the Cheetah if you need a job." So I got out of jail and went down to the Cheetah when it was the hottest strip club in Atlanta at the time. I started bouncing there. Centre Stage was probably a half mile from there. (Barry) Windham, (Rick) Steiner, and a lot of the guys came down. I became friends with some of the boys. F---, I was on the gas back then. I was probably 370. I was huge. That was back when I could incline 405 to 12. I was a musclehead dude. I made six figures bouncing. When Ole (Anderson) offered me my first contract, he said he'd give me 75 grand. I said, "Who do you think you're talking to?" I have a year-and-a-half old Cadillac. My wife has a brand new convertible Mustang. I'm living in a gated community in Buckhead. I'm making 130, 140 a year. You've got to be kidding me." He said, "That's all I can offer you." I asked my wife. She looked at me and said, "If he offered you 30 and it got you out of the strip joint, I'd say yes." She just wanted me out of the strip joint.

 

Keller: Little did she know.

 

Nash: [laughs] "

[Guest jm29195]

As I mentioned earlier, Nash is ace!

[Jericholic82 0]

As I mentioned earlier, Nash is ace!

ROTFL AT THAT BATISTA PIC

[Guest JebusNassedar]

You'd never expect Nash to be the one grounded in reality.

[Lightning Flik 0]

Nash making sense? And a damn lot of it?!

 

...you know wrestling is bad when he's got his ego in check and praising Daniels and Styles.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Never let it be said that Nash doesn't know when to say the right things at the right time.

[Cheech Tremendous 0]

I know that this guy had some bad runs as a booker, but damn if he doesn't seem more in touch than just about anyone in the business.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

The saddest part is Nash was right with this quote:

 

"What the f--'s going on? I'm 46 years old and I'm the hippest guy in the room. What the f--- is that?"

 

Says a lot about TNA don't it.

[King Cucaracha 0]

Entertaining read.

 

It's odd to see Kevin Nash's views on parallel with most 'smart' fans' views.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

My favorite line was where he talked about turning Dusty Rhodes into Fat Joe.

[Some Guy 0]

Entertaining read.

 

It's odd to see Kevin Nash's views on parallel with most 'smart' fans' views.

He's doing an interview with PWTorch.com. He knows his audience for the interview is the IWC so he's going to say what he thinks we want to hear. Too, bad that most of us know that he never booked the way he's talking now.

 

When does the second part come out? I do enjoy reading this type of shit despite what it sure to come next is going to be lies and distortions.

[natey2k4 0]

He also said he's a changed person.. he doesnt call the smaller, talented guys "vanilla midgets" anymore, he praises them.. and its not as if this is the only interview or news where Nash has been heard praising Styles.

 

Nash may have changed, fuck Dusty let Nash book!

[King Cucaracha 0]

Entertaining read.

 

It's odd to see Kevin Nash's views on parallel with most 'smart' fans' views.

He's doing an interview with PWTorch.com. He knows his audience for the interview is the IWC so he's going to say what he thinks we want to hear.

Oh, I know that.

 

It's just odd to see the name 'Nash' in front of a lot of the lines.

[Placebo Effect 0]

Nash really put it into prospective when he compared his W-L record to Dustin's.

[geniusMoment 0]

In his audio clip Nash shows you why he is still a moron in terms of knowing what draws in wrestling. He uses the tired cliche of "men want to be you, and women want to fuck you". He goes on to say that women do not want to fuck Eddie or Benoit, thereby justifying not pushing them. Does Nash realize that the two biggest stars in the history of the fucking sport were Hogan and Austin. Neither of whom got over on being ladies men. Women might have wanted to fuck them, but it was only because they became huge stars.

 

Also, Nash has not changed that much. He talks about how it is important to have the "airport factor", (ie. when you walk through the airport people need to stare at you because you are larger than life). Nash said since he is a big guy he has always liked "big guy wrestling". Well, virtually all big guy wrestling sucks outside of Vader and ECW Mike Awesome.

[iggymcfly 0]

In his audio clip Nash shows you why he is still a moron in terms of knowing what draws in wrestling. He uses the tired cliche of "men want to be you, and women want to fuck you". He goes on to say that women do not want to fuck Eddie or Benoit, thereby justifying not pushing them. Does Nash realize that the two biggest stars in the history of the fucking sport were Hogan and Austin. Neither of whom got over on being ladies men. Women might have wanted to fuck them, but it was only because they became huge stars.

 

Also, Nash has not changed that much. He talks about how it is important to have the "airport factor", (ie. when you walk through the airport people need to stare at you because you are larger than life). Nash said since he is a big guy he has always liked "big guy wrestling". Well, virtually all big guy wrestling sucks outside of Vader and ECW Mike Awesome.

I don't know about that. He's still got the basic point. Nothing about Chris Benoit or Eddie Guerrero projects that cool aura that would make guys think "hey, I want to be like Benoit." If you're looking at Austin and Hogan, the idea that men wanted to be like them is pretty much indisputable. Hogan was the classical hero that youngsters would look up to, and Austin was the anti-hero that projected everything that people wished they could do in their own lives, but were afraid to.

 

Everything I saw in that interview was pretty much spot on. He recognizes his own flaws, and it seems like he has a pretty good idea of what's going on in the business. Even with Batista, he's right, as while he has a lot of the tools, I think just about everybody cringes when he does that stupid flex pose.

[geniusMoment 0]

In the audio clip Nash also defends his use of the term vanilla midgets by saying something to the effect of, "I loved what they did, but it was like watching a porno where a guy has a 4 inch cock. I am a big guy, and I like to watch big guys." What Nash does not understand is that more young people want to be Eddy, especially minority groups.

 

 

Nash actually praises Jericho. Saying Jericho is too vocal to the creative team, and they fuck him over because of it, both in WCW and WWE. He says Jericho is not afraid to say your writing sucks. Nash goes on to say that, "Chris is the most over guy...... that never gets pushed, they do nothing with him." He calls Jericho a great worker. Nash's hope was that during his last run in WWE he could have been Diesel with Jericho, but that never happened. He feels he could have gotten 3 years out of being Diesel with Jericho.

[TheFranchise 0]

In the audio clip Nash also defends his use of the term vanilla midgets by saying something to the effect of, "I loved what they did, but it was like watching a porno where a guy has a 4 inch cock. I am a big guy, and I like to watch big guys." What Nash does not understand is that more young people want to be Eddy, especially minority groups.

 

 

Nash actually praises Jericho. Saying Jericho is too vocal to the creative team, and they fuck him over because of it, both in WCW and WWE. He says Jericho is not afraid to say your writing sucks. Nash goes on to say that, "Chris is the most over guy...... that never gets pushed, they do nothing with him." He calls Jericho a great worker. Nash's hope was that during his last run in WWE he could have been Diesel with Jericho, but that never happened. He feels he could have gotten 3 years out of being Diesel with Jericho.

And you get the idea that with Nash by his side, Creative would notice him and do something with him.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

Triple H is creative. So it would be interesting if he'd lobby a guy he dislikes(Jericho) to support one of his best friends(Nash).

[Promoter 0]

Maybe it's me, but Nash sounds like a moron. I've seen Triple H say that people stand by and wait for Vince to make them a star, while it's the other way around. If you get yourself over Vince will give you the ball to make yourself big. You know what...Triple H is right. Nash probably fed that crap to Vince in 1994 and that is why he got that push. Sure, he got some pops for the Rumble that year, but that didn't mean he had to be pushed with winning all those titles within 9 months. Nash didn't get the distinction for being the lowest drawing champ ever for nothing. You got to eventually bring the sizzle along with the steak.

 

The man baiscally admitted it was okay for him to kill wcw with his booking(which he still doesn't understand why it sucked) because he made it a monster with the nWo. Read between the lines. They can put blame on Turner executives all they want. When the wwf starting to kick it in high gear they shit themselves and couldn't counter book to handle Austin and the attitude era.

 

Kevin Nash it seems doesn't undeerstand how using people's strengths to create them into mega-stars is what really works. If things really went the way he said with having the look and whatnot, the business would just hire stunt men in hollywood with the right looks. It's not that simple. You take people's strengths and the popularity of the star and magnify it, so that ladies want to fuck them and men want to be like them. That is how it works and I don't care how much "experience" Nash has a booker. No wonder Vince whooped their ass once the "wwf takeover" and star appeal of the 80's guys in wcw wore off. That is the REAL reason why Nash got big when he failed like Lex Luger(another one with a million dollar body and monster push that went nowhere) as wwf champion.

[MARTYEWR 0]

Does anyone with a Torch subscription have the second part of the Nash interview that they can share with us, if at all possible? Very much appreciated, whoever can do it.

[geniusMoment 0]

They did not run part two this week, it will probably be split up into around 10 parts.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

I don't think this has been posted yet, here's part two of the interview:

 

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 2

Originally Published: April 16, 2005

Torch Newsletter #857

 

Kevin Nash, one of the biggest names of the Monday Night War era whose

jump with Scott Hall from the WWF to WCW helped shift the balance of

power in the wrestling industry, is now a headliner with TNA. In this,

the second installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March

24, Nash talks about his early years in wrestling, his early

influences including Jody Hamilton and Rick Rude, his first

impressions of WCW, a story about Dusty Rhodes presenting him with the

Oz gimmick, and the Vinnie Vegas character that first got him noticed.

As this "Torch Talk" progresses, he marches through in great detail

his entire career including his jump to the WWF, his jump to WCW, the

success of the NWO, the downfall of WCW, his role in that downfall,

the drug culture that permiated WCW during its peak years, his

ill-fated return to WWE, his philosophy on pro wrestling, his thoughts

on the Bret Hart Survivor Series Swerve, and much more.

 

Wade Keller: How did you go about being trained to be a professional wrestler?

 

Kevin Nash: I checked around and people told me that Jody Hamilton had

a school and I went down and the first night I went there for a

tryout. They did the old school deal where you pay 1,500 bucks for a

tryout. They make you do a thousand Hindus, a thousand step-ups, a

thousand push-ups, run the ropes for a week and a half, and have a

couple of guys stretch you, and make you go home and take your 1,500

bucks. When it came time for the stretching part, I had made it

through everything. With bad knees and all, I did a thousand Hindus, I

did my step ups, I did my push-ups. It got to the point where it was

time to get stretched. They had a little shooter pulling on me. I got

my left hand loose and hit him about three times in the face because I

figured if we're shootin', we're shootin'. I got a hand loose and

busted the guy open. The guy rolled out and said, "F--- this." They

said, "Okay, we'll see you on Monday." Jody said to me, "You got

heart, kid." I went to school the next Monday. When everyone else was

doing Hindus, I started doing them. He pulled me aside and started

talking about psychology immediately. Jody pulled me aside. Everybody

who goes to wrestling school gets smartened up about eight months in.

I got smartened up the first day in. He told me about the Kentuckians

and the heat they had. He laid it out, how they got the heat. He

basically gave me a psychology-work ethic backwards, which is probably

my downfall in life (laughs) because my psychology is way better than

my work. But basically, the thing was, he'd always say, Ox Baker could

talk a house in from a million miles away and people would pay 20

bucks to get the f--- out. He could talk the talk, he couldn't walk

the walk. But Jody was a great teacher. The thing was, man, Jody was

huge. He was way over 300 pounds. He'd get in that ring and start

moving around. I had nothing but respect for him because he was

probably in his mid-50s when he trained me and he could still motor in

that ring, he could still throw a hell of a working punch. It wasn't

do as I say, not as I do. Dwayne Bruce was there, and Dwayne was a

solid worker. Sarge (Dwayne Bruce) was a solid worker, but he was

never big enough. So Dwayne was the guy I worked with on a day-to-day

basis. I think that was good too because I learned the lay the sh--

in. Coming out of the chute, if you're sh--'s f--in' weak, you're

sh--'s weak. You're better off being a cement mixer and nobody wants

to work with you than come out and look like a f---in' c--t. So that

was Jody's philosophy. And Dwayne f---in' laid his sh-- in and we

worked snug down there. There were a lot of nights that you got a sh--

knocked out of you. He lays clotheslined in. I'd get up at 8 o'clock,

go to the gym, I'd work a ten hour shift at the strip joint because I

switched to day shift, and come 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock at night, I'd

drive 20 miles down to Lovejoy, Georgia to a little hut that was half

a wrestling school, and the other half sold carpet remnants. No air

conditioning, no heat, and for nine months I went down there five

nights a week and bounced around.

 

Keller: What preconceptions did you have about what it would take and

what were you surprised when you started going through the process?

 

Kevin Nash as Oz (photo by Wade Keller, PWTorch)

Nash: Because it's a work, it's not like - I try telling people who

ask what makes pro wrestling so tough that it's the hardest thing I've

ever done. In baseball you either hit a ball or don't hit a ball. In

basketball you either hit the shot or you don't hit the shot. This is

a situation where you tell Barry Bonds, "Okay, you have to knock the

ball out of the park, but you can't actually touch the ball." You have

convince me that you're killing each other, but because especially

when I broke in you worked 300 days a year, you have to look like

you're killing the guy on every move you do, night in and night out,

except you can't touch the guy because you have to work 23 straight

days. Man, it's one of those deals where either the light bulbs comes

on in this business or it doesn't. My first match was live in

Asheville, N.C. at the Clash of Champions. My partner jumped off the

top rope and missed a headbutt by four feet. I heard us lose the

people (laughs). It didn't take Harley Race to go, "Brother, you lost

the people." I knew right then we lost them. And they'd start chanting

"LOD wanna bes" and I said, "We're f---ed. We're dead. This is a dead

gimmick." It's like Oz. When I walked in to St. Petersburg that day

and they handed me the Oz gimmick, I said to myself, "All right,

they're running me out of the business, but that's okay because I've

got a guaranteed deal. F--- it. I'll do what I can with it."

 

Keller: How did the Oz gimmick come about? Did you have any input on it?

 

Nash: Nothing. I walked into Dusty's office. This was a conversation

I've said a million times, but it's classic if you know Dusty. He

said, (imitating Dusty), "You will be Oz, baby." I said, "What do you

mean I'm going to be Oz." He said, "You know, like the Wizard of Oz."

I said, "Well, Dusty, Oz is a geographical region." He said

(enthusiastically), "No, you're the guy behind the curtain!" I said,

"No, he's the Wizard of Oz. He's actually the Wizard. Oz is a

geographical region, the place where they go to." He goes, "No, you

Oz!" I went, "All right." So basically, I'm f---ed. (laughs)

 

Keller: When you started with WCW, and it was Jim Herd (as executive

vice president) and Ole Anderson (as booker) basically in charge, you

didn't have anything to compare it to, but what did you think? First

class operation?

 

Nash: When I first got to WCW, it was like a bad blow job. I knew

coming in. I didn't really anything out of it until they brought

(Rick) Rude in. When they brought Rude in, for some reason Rude and I

gravitated toward each other. It was one of those deals where Rude

watched me in Centre Stage have a match and got to know me backstage

and said I had that Robinsdale attitude. He saw that I didn't take no

sh--. So Rude that night said to me, "Where do you live, Nash?" I

said, "I live here in Atlanta." He told me he would come pick me up.

He came and picked me up in his Mercedes and we partied a little bit

on the way. He smartened me up to the business. He said, "I'm going to

watch every match you do and I'm going to help you. You're going to be

my protege. All I ask you to do is drive me home every night. I'll

drive to the town, you just have to drive me home." I said, "It's a

deal." That was the deal. He would watch my matches. I remember the

first night, that night in Augusta, he sat back there and they put

Madusa with him as his valet. He was standing there in the red robe

with the curly mullet. He was walking back and forth with a cigarette

hanging out of his mouth with a two inch ash. He was walking back and

forth blowing smoke out of his nose. He takes a big drag and they're

playing his music. He drops his cigarette, puts it out with his boot,

and walks through the curtain. He stands there when the spotlight's on

him and blows the smoke through his nose like a dragon, walks to the

ring, and I went, "F--in' is he the man or what?" Rude went out there

and he did great spots where he'd stop and make the babyface do a

comedy spot. Then he'd stop him, snag on his back, and turn the people

completely the opposite way where suddenly this is the realist thing

I've ever seen. They'd be, "F--- you, Rick Rude!" And f--in' Rude

would do those crazy great ass bumps, give the best f---in' feed of a

heel probably ever in the business besides Triple H, and whatever the

finish was. I watched it, and I saw that formula night in and night

out. At that point WCW wasn't entertaining. Rude was the first guy who

got it, that it was sports entertainment, you had to entertain the

people. It's not armdrag, armdrag, dropdown, get it again dawg. It

ain't that. It's f---in' entertainment. He was the first one who

changed the profile or the personality of WCW. I think people emulated

him. Shortly after Jake (Roberts) came in, and those two guys

basically changed things.

 

I remember one night in Tallahassee, Jake had Nikita (Koloff) slam him

like twenty times in a row. Nikita was so blown up. Nikita wasn't

selling for anybody those days, and Jake was so smart, he told him to

slam him again and again and again and again. He'd ask him how blown

up he was, then told him, "Now sell my sh--y jabs! You're mine,

bitch." (laughs) I watched that and learned from Jake and Rude that

you have to control that environment. As soon as you do that, there's

no nerves, you never blow up. People ask, "Aren't you worried about

blowing up, you haven't worked in six month?" You can't blow me up. I

work too f--in' slow. I don't work your pace. I can't work your pace,

you work mine. I remember I was in the business three or four years. I

was working with Scorpio. We had a match that was kinda the sh--s and

he said, "Dude, you gotta pick it up." I said, "You don't understand,

man, I'm all f---in' beat up. I said, "I can't work your speed, you

have to work mine. You have no choice." The only time I've ever had

great matches is when guys that I worked with can create movement.

Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart, Triple H, and I thought I had a really good

match with Jeff (Jarrett) the other week. Jeff can create movement. I

could f---in' have a great match with Sean Waltman. Anybody who can

create movement and the illusion that I'm moving besides swinging,

ducking, dropping you over me - as long as there's an illusion there.

I knew that from day one. Scott Hall could do that. Scott is probably

the greatest big-man worker ever in the business, to me. I've watched

(Bruiser) Brody tapes, I've watched (Stan) Hansen tapes. I've watched

every f---in' match those guys have had. They weren't at Scott's

caliber. They couldn't have had that ladder match. Nobody

six-foot-six, 275 can work like Scott Hall.

 

I have some pictures here. I live by myself on the beach. I have very

few photos of the boys, but I have a black and white photo somebody

took of the first night Scott and I and (Eric) Bischoff were together,

June of 1996. I've got a picture of me, Shawn (Michaels), and Triple H

at his wedding. I've got a picture of me and Triple H from his

wedding. And then I've got a picture from Berlin of the Clique. And

that's basically all the wrestling photos I have. Oh, I've got a

picture of me and (Steve) Austin, too, because Steve's a real close

friend of mine. That's about all I've got. I look back at my career,

there's a lot of guys I've respected, a lot of guys that I pay homage

to, but it's always been the Clique, Steve Austin, and Take

(Undertaker). I've always had a real closeness with Take. I had a real

good relationship with those Natural Born Thrillas guys, like (Mark)

Jindrak and guys like that. It was kind of fun to give them the Rude

treatment, kind of teach them how the business runs.

 

Kevin Nash as Oz (photo by Wade Keller, Torch editor)

Keller: When you first got to WCW, did you have to pay dues? Did you

have to go through any kind of initiation?

 

Nash: You know what, it was one of those deals, I think because of

what I was, I was a pretty well-known bouncer. There were a lot of

fights and the guys at clubs would pay me a couple hundred bucks to

break up fights. I was pretty heavy-handed and back then you could

beat the f--- out of people. Growing up in Detroit, I've been fighting

since I was six years old. I'm not afraid to fight. To this day, I'll

fight tomorrow, I'll fight anybody. I don't give a sh--. Worst case

scenario in a fight is they can kill you. The second-worst scenario is

they can beat your ass. The third-worst scenario is you can beat the

f--- out of them and they can press charges. I was a big f---in' guy

and I've always had a good sense of humor, I've always been kind of

the locker room comedian. At the same time, if you f-- with me, I

don't give a f--- if you're the World Champion, I'll punch you in the

face. I'll take you into the f---in' showers and I'll wait until you

soap your head up and you're bent over and I'll punch you in the side

of the head. There's a respect to being six-ten and 340 and then guys

go to the gym and watch you incline 405 for twelve reps and they go,

"F---, you're a big, strong motherf--- who moves pretty good." My deal

was anytime I got into a fight with a normal human being, I'd ask,

"When's the last time you fought a six-ten, 320 pound guy who was in

shape and knows how to fight? Ever! Go ahead and think about it

because let me tell you something, when you say f---in' stop, I ain't

stoppin'. I'm not that f---in' guy. I'm the guy that will kick you

until I break my shins, until you get underneath a f---in' engine

block. I'm that guy. I think that translates. I think when you're a

f---in' heel and you work with people, you have that prick gear. Scott

Hall had the gear. Shawn Michaels had the gear. You have to have the

ability to change gears when you actually get heat on somebody. I

think Disco Inferno is a great worker, but he never had the ability to

shift gears. He never had the ability to make people think he was a

nasty mother f---er. And Glenn could do everything else. You could

beat Glenn every night of the week and he'd stay over, he just can't

turn gears. That's one of my things that I want to do. Everything can

be taught in life. The saying is you can't teach a new dog old tricks.

That's bullsh--. You have to have the patience to teach that dog the

trick. Anything can be taught in life. You can take an 85 year old

woman and teach her Latin if she wants to learn it. To me, you have to

have a certain prick element to get over in this business. People

would always say to me, "Scott Levy, Raven, I don't like him." I said,

"That's why it works, that's why he has heat. Because he's not real

likable." I love him. I love him. I think the fact that they've

bastardized his character in the last couple of months has drove me

crazy. He is one of the few. He's iconic to a different degree than

most of the people are. Okay, if I took over the book over next week,

next pay-per-view it's a hardcore match, Dustin (Rhodes) vs. Raven,

best of luck. Raven splits you f--in' open and beats you to death with

a trash can lid. That's what that angle needs. Raven is a guy who was

with me back in the day. We went up and down the road together. He

loves the business. There's few guys who love it as much as Scotty

does. To me, it's one of those deals where you look at it and say,

"Scotty, I've been to Mount Olympus and you stood next to me; you were

there. You didn't have to be there, you didn't have to have a belt on

you. When I look at our era of guys, you're there."

 

Keller: He calls himself the last of the true territory guys.

 

Nash: And he was. I watched ECW because of him. To me, people can say

what they want to about ECW, but there were never greater finishes

than on their TV. I mean, they were so multi-layered, they were like

the Japan finishes, but with an American twist. They were great. I'd

love it because a guy would get chopped like with a 25-automatic, hit

with a dinosaur, kick out, kick out, caught on fire, kick out, and

then schoolboy, 1-2-3. It was classic. You'd be at home going, "Ohh,

that ain't it! Ohh, that ain't it!? What? That's it? Schoolboy? F--,

you got me!" You can say what you want to about Paul E., but his sh--

was as innovative and as important to that genesis as the NWO and

Austin and McMahon was. Those were the three synergies that kind of

pushed the platelets together and formed this giant volcano that

became pro wrestling and then basically exploded in '99 and died. All

those factors were huge in doing so.

 

Keller: People first started noticing you when you were doing the

radio show in Atlanta with Jim Ross as Vinnie Vegas. That was your

chance to kind of show your personality and wit because Oz didn't do

it, Master Blaster didn't do it. Did you know that you were onto

something then or were you just having fun?

 

Nash: Jim would have me on and the thing was, I've been able to get

ass just by making girls laugh. I mean, that was always my thing, wow,

the big funny guy. That was kind of my deal. I've been the class clown

since I was six years old. My son comes home and says he got in

trouble. He had the whole class laughing and he's crackin' jokes, and

I'm like, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. My son's comedic

timing is great. There are times he'll have me belly laughing. He's

eight years old and he'll have my belly laugh. To me, I've always

said, and not to be redundant because it's been quoted a million

times, but I can't remember a time in my life I was laughing and

having a bad time. Ross and I always had a good relationship.

 

Keller: Getting Ross to laugh was a challenge for you.

 

Nash: Yes, and I could get him to laugh. The thing was, I would badger

guys who were higher up on the food chain than I was. I wasn't afraid

to make fun of guys.

 

Keller: You were saying things he was thinking, but could never say.

 

Nash: He realized I didn't care. How can I care? I was getting beat

every night. What were they going to do to me? Beat me more? You can't

beat me more than every night. I remember when Griz (Grizzly Smith)

came up to me night and said, "I want you to go over on (Brian)

Pillman tonight. What's your finish?" I said, "F---in' lay on my back.

I don't know. What is it?" (laughs) I didn't have a finish. He said,

"How about a running shoulder block." I said, "How do you do it?" I

didn't know what he was talking about. I hadn't won a match since I

got there.

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 3

Originally Published: April 23, 2005

Torch Newsletter #858

 

Kevin Nash, one of the biggest names of the Monday Night War era whose

jump with Scott Hall from the WWF to WCW helped shift the balance of

power in the wrestling industry, is now a headliner with TNA. In this,

the third installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March

24, Nash finishes talking about his first stint in WCW, how he lied to

get out of his guaranteed contract to jump to the WWF, why he jumped

to the WWF, and how he hit it off right away with Shawn Michaels. As

this "Torch Talk" progresses, he marches through in great detail his

entire career including the forming of The Clique in the WWF, his jump

to WCW, the success of the NWO, the downfall of WCW, his role in that

downfall, the drug culture that permeated WCW during its peak years,

his ill-fated return to WWE, his philosophy on pro wrestling, his

thoughts on the Bret Hart Survivor Series Swerve, and much more.

 

Wade Keller: When you first started getting attention as Vinnie Vegas,

did you start feeling a little more comfortable in the ring at that

point, or was your confidence shot that you were going to be a big

jobber forever?

 

Nash: I actually had a decent match on a PPV with (Van) Hammer. Do you

remember that? I had a decent match and the thing was we were going

around on the B-towns. The A-towns were doing their thing, and at the

B-towns it was the Hollywood Blondes, Pillman & Austin, versus Shane

(Douglas) and (Rick) Steamboat. Me vs. Hammer was semi-main. So we're

doing like 20, 25 minutes a night. There were only six matches on the

card, so we really had to put time in. People can say what they want

to about Mark (Hammer), but we actually worked a decent match. We were

able to go 20 minutes and actually get some false finishes and

actually have the people's attention. I was travelling with Austin and

Brian and (Bill) Dundee. We were driving up and down the road

together. Austin always had incredible insight. Brian had incredible

insight. But Dundee was one of those few Memphis guys who actually

would share the f---in' knowledge. A guy like (Jerry) Lawler would

say, "You gotta learn on your own, kid." Okay, f-- it, I'm gonna be

stiffin' you, mother f---er." Dundee shared the knowledge. I remember,

and I want to say this because I want it to be in print somewhere,

when I first broke in, my first match was working against Tim Horton

and Mike Rotunda. I went out, me and my first partner, Cory Pindarvis,

that was before Al Greene. The guy lasted a f---in' week as my Master

Blaster partner. I remember Rotunda, my partner was stiffin' the f--

out of him and hurting him. We had this laid out match that we did at

the Clash of the Champions. We went over it a hundred times with Brad

and Tim at the camp. So we get to Canton, Ohio, and it's Tim and

Rotunda and we've got nothing laid out, and this is back in the day

when the locker rooms are opposite sides of the building and you've

got to send the referee back and forth (to communicate the match

finish). Just bullsh--. Come on. "Brother, it's a work, but we're not

going to smarten each other up on it." So the referee is running back

and forth and they're f---ing with us because we're getting a push and

they're pissed because they're putting us over, so they're not

smartening us up. So all we get is the finish. We have no spots or

nothing. I get out there and it's, "Oh, f--, man!" So I locked up with

f--in' Mike and Mike says, "Can you f---in' listen?" I said, "I think

so." He said (really quickly and quietly): "Tackle dropdown." I said

(really loudly and deliberately sounding like the Cookie Monster), "I

tackle YOU? Who tackles WHO!" He said, "Shut the f--- up!" Then I

realized I am a f---ing green horn. Every night Mike would put a spot

together with me and the spots would grow night after night. We would

have two spots, then three spots, then four spots. By the fifth night

in Hammond, me and him had a nice little exchange back and forth that

Mike taught me. The last night Mike said, "Slam me, drop an elbow." I

dropped this sh--y f---n' elbow that about cut him in half. He went,

"F--- that. Meet me at Centre Stage on Tuesday." He met me there at 11

o'clock and I swear to God, Mike Rotunda let me drop 200 elbows on

him. You don't forget that sh-- in your life. That's a guy who if his

wife called me tomorrow and said Mike needs a kidney and our blood

matches, wherever he needed it, boy, I'd be there. There are a few of

those guys.

 

When Lex (Luger) was making huge money and nobody else was making

money, Lex always picked up the tabs at dinner. You never forget that.

Lex always picked up the tabs. Two hundred bucks at Morton's. "I got

it guys, I got it." Now when he needs a hand and needs a friend,

nobody's there for him. That's the sh-- that's f---ed up.

 

Kevin Nash (photo by Jerry Wilson, PWTorch)

Keller: Had you befriended Dallas Page by this point?

 

Nash: Dallas's opening day was the Oz gimmick. They had a problem with

the mic and he said, "Aww, f--- this" on TV when Diamond Studd was

just Scott Hall.

 

Keller: You had a number of people around you that you were learning

from. Was there a feeling also that there were a lot of people around

who saw it as anything that you learned could hurt them?

 

Nash: I knew when I came in the door that it was one of those deals

where there were people thinking there's this good looking guy with a

good body and he's bigger than I am, so f--- smartening him up. Back

then, when you came to WCW, it was nepotism. Dusty (Rhodes) was

booking and he had his Florida crew there.

 

Keller: Were you studying not just how to be a better wrestler, but

also the booking aspects of the business? Was that something that

fascinated you and caught your interest early on or did that come

later?

 

Nash: I would always watch a show and think, that finish was okay, but

if you would have done this it would have been better. Early on I was

a pretty good finish guy. But I think that's because Jody Hamilton

said you can go 60 minutes and have the best match in the world, but

you f--- the finish up and the match will be the sh--s. He said you

could have a 60 minute stinker, but if the last three minutes have

great false finishes and a great finish, all the people will remember

is the false finishes and the finish and say you had a great match. I

just think God blessed me with Jody Hamilton. Jody Hamilton, if you

look back at it, if you watch tapes of him working (as The Assassin),

here was a guy who was really basically able to give you facials with

a mask on. He would juice through the mask. If you can find some old

tapes of those guys, especially with the Kentuckians, I've got a black

and white of those guys from Camp Belton, Kentucky or someplace like

that, it's like a high school gym, and you can see the pain underneath

the mask of this guy and you can see his face underneath the mask. He

was a special, special cat. I was blessed that was the guy who broke

me into the business.

 

Keller: If you could choose just one moment that was going to be

captured on the Best of Kevin Nash DVD from that era, what would it

be? In the ring or out of the ring.

 

Nash: Honestly, if I had to have a moment, it's when they handed me

that f---in' Oz costume. I picked up that dunce cap with the rubber

mask on it and I said to myself, "Wow, they're really trying to f---

me." That was just one of those deals. Hulk (Hogan) couldn't get over

in this gimmick. It was a case of someone going: The big tough guy

wants to get in the business? F---in' survive this.

 

Keller: The scary part is it wasn't meant to sabotage you because of

all the money they put into it. If they wanted to sabotage you, they

wouldn't have spent as much money on the entrance set.

 

Nash: That's what I mean. There must have been a lot of good mushrooms

being passed around at that time. I don't know. I looked at it and I

knew the minute they looked at the costume.

 

Keller: How did the process work that you ended up with the WWF?

 

Nash: It's a great story. The Steiners had just come up there in '93.

The first TV that the Steiners went to was Green Bay where Kevin Kelly

said that Vince McMahon grabbed him and there was a whole f---in' deal

he was choking Vince out. This is the Steiners' first TV up there. I'm

Robbie's (Rick Steiner) godfather for his first son, Hudson. Robbie

calls me and said, "F---, you wouldn't believe how crazy this place

it!" He lays out the whole f---n' deal. He added, "By the way, I

talked to Shawn Michaels. He digs your Vinnie Vegas gimmick. He thinks

it's funny. He'd like you to come in and be a bodyguard. So at that

point I was driving a lot with (Barry) Windham to and from towns.

There was a show at Fort Lindalwood at the Army Base and nobody showed

up and we got there early. Me and Barry drove from Atlanta. It was an

all-day drive and Barry and I drinking like Crown Royals and beers and

sh--. We got there and thought we shouldn't be drinking, but he's on

top so I'm going to drink. He was office, too, at the time. We get

there and there's nobody there but me and Barry, so me and Barry have

to open the show. Barry says to me, "Can you listen?" I said, "Talk

slow." We went out there and had a really good match. Barry was the

first guy who got out there and kind of worked my pace. Instead of

talking sh--, he asked how's my wind, can you do this, do you know

what I'm calling? Windham was so talented. Remember how he used to

enter the ring from the floor where he'd pounce like a panther through

the ropes? It was like one solid movement - bam, he was in the ring.

He was a six-foot-six, 275 pound guy. He was as good as anybody's ever

been. If you were going to do an outline form of Big Guys Category, he

and Scott Hall are in that top list. I had been almost in the business

for three years at this point. I learned the "work" part of it and I

just sat there one day. We'd always drink and have a good time.

 

We were going to Dalton, Georgia for TV and I didn't say anything the

whole way. New York (the WWF) at that time was The Show. It was like

playing for the Yankees. I said I had to get out of my contract, but I

have to do it without them knowing I want to go to New York. So I

didn't say anything the whole way up. He asked me, "What's wrong." I

said, "Nothing." He said, "What's wrong." I said, "Nothing." We got

about 200 miles into the trip and I said, "My wife's gonna leave me if

I don't get out of the business." He said, "F---, you gotta get out of

the business, man." He knew Ole (Anderson), who was booking (WCW)

then. I asked if he thought Ole would let me out of my contract. He

said, "We'll do it on Monday." So Ole, of course, was glad to do it.

At that point I was Vinnie Vegas. He was eager to get rid of this

mother f---er who was making 125 grand a year and ain't doin' sh--.

Hell yeah, he was ready to get rid of me. He couldn't sign my notice

fast enough. He signed it and I went in the back office and made a

couple copies of it. I went to my house and faxed it to J.J. (Dillon,

head of talent relations in the WWF at the time). J.J. said, "We'll

send you a ticket. You're coming to Albany, N.Y." My first match was

Albany, N.Y., I think June 6. I f---ed over Marty (Jannetty) that

night in a non-title match and then I f---ed him at Raw at the

Manhattan Center and Shawn got the belt. I said to myself, I've been

in this company two days and I've meant more than I have in three

years in the business elsewhere.

 

Keller: Even though Shawn didn't know you, he just had seen you, after

the first time you two were on TV together, it was clear there was a

chemistry there.

 

Nash: Oh, yeah, absolutely. We bonded. Number one, I thought he was

like 5-9. I walked into the locker room and turned around and said,

"Hey, Shawn, I'm Kevin Nash." He turned around and stood up and was

like six-one-a-half and he went (deep voice), "Hey!" I'm like, what

the f---, that voice didn't just come out of you. You gottabme sh--in'

me. And we drove that night and I guess it's one of those deals where

he had watched my sh-- and I watched his sh-- and we drove back from

Albany to Stamford and it was, like, I was a fan of his stuff and he

actually liked my Vinnie Vegas stuff. He put my stuff over and we

became friends. It was an instant chemistry between us. And the thing

was, Shawn ain't stupid. He knows who's going to mesh with him. He's

not going to pull just anybody in. They (WCW) were pissed when I

showed up on Raw.

 

Keller: You lied to get out of your deal, so of course they're upset.

 

Nash: I think at the same time it was one of those deals where it's

(singing) "Cat in the Cradle where my son grew up just like me." I

remember one time, I think Dusty was the booker. He told me you can't

get over. I said we have a match with (Rick) Steamboat tonight. Me and

Big Sky against Steamboat and Shane Douglas. I looked at him and said,

"How about I hit Steamboat with my finish about 30 seconds in and we

win the tag belts. You think I'd get over then, mother f---er?" He

looked at me like, "Okay, he's f---in' smart and he knows how it

works. He realizes it ain't nothing but a push." F--- you, man! You

don't think I know? I know, mother f---er. I've just been taking my

money. There wasn't a guy in his first three years in the business who

made more money. I probably made 350, 400 thousand dollars and

probably worked 29 shows. I just never worked. I made 125 grand when I

was doing Oz and I worked about nine times that year.

 

Keller: When you signed with the WWF, you signed for actually less

than your WCW guarantee, obviously.

 

Nash: Back then when you signed with the WWF, the deal was you were

guaranteed ten shows at 150 dollars a show. You were guaranteed

fifteen hundred dollars. That was your guarantee with New York. I

remember I went to Vince (McMahon)'s house straight off the airplane

before I went to Albany. Marco the limo driver drove me to Vince's

house. I knocked on the door. Vince came out with an IcoPro cut-off

grey sweat shirt on and f---in' black sweat pants and to me, I'm

looking at Steinbrenner. Say what you will about Vince McMahon - I

love the mother f---er. He's a man's man. He shook my hand, looked me

in the eye, and said, "Come on in! This is J.J., this is Pat

(Patterson) and you probably heard he's gay. He is." He just laid the

sh-- out in black and white. This is what we expect out of you. I

walked into the door and he said, "You're a lot bigger than I thought

you'd be. That's a good thing. You're a good looking guy. We can make

some money with you." He said, "Get back into the car, get to Albany,

we got sh-- laid out, and we're going to make you a f---in' star." I

called my wife when I got to Albany that night. This was back in the

day when it was pagers. I called my wife on the pay phone at the

building and said, "I met Vince McMahon tonight." She said, "Really,

how was he?" I said, "He was nice as f--- to me. He told me I'm going

to get over." And he did. I don't care what anybody says. If it wasn't

for Vince McMahon, I wouldn't be sitting out looking at the ocean

right now when I'm talking to you.

 

Keller: What did you make your first year in the WWF?

 

Nash: Probably around two-ish.

 

Keller: Minus road expenses, which WCW covered, right?

 

Nash: I really don't know. My wife was a school teacher at the time.

We were just living modestly. I bet my net for the year was probably

30. I met up with Scott and Shawn and we triple-heeled every night.

We'd rock, paper, scissors for the rollaway. We would stay at Super

8s. We were probably spending 40 three-ways on a room and 59 on a

Lincoln back then three ways. We were eatin' tuna and Denny's. Me and

(Steve) Austin travelled together in WCW. I learned from him. Austin

and I, it was an ongoing rib where we'd go into a town and all the top

guys, Arn and the Horsemen and stuff, they'd have these Marriot

towels. Me and Austin had what looked like a paper towel from a gas

station. They'd ask where we were stayin'. Roger's Christmas Tree Inn.

We got 19.40 for the rate. F---, we didn't give a sh--. What are you

going to do? You're just stayin' the night there.

 

Keller: Austin learned that because he starved his first few years in

the business in Memphis and Texas.

 

Nash: Right, and you know what, to this day, Steve is the same guy.

When me and Steve were doing the "Longest Yard" (movie last year), we

have a hundred dollar per day per diem, and we never spent above that

hundred bucks. We went and had sushi that night after we shot all day,

it'd be like, "What's that gonna cost us?" They'd say 137. "All right,

that'll work." I mean, that's the thing about Steve. The reason that

character worked so well as an everyman character is because that's

f---in' Steve. I talk to Steve at least once, if not twice a week.

Anytime that the world gets me kind of off kilter, I think we call

each other for reality checks. He just wants to hear from his buddy.

He knows I'm sitting here spending 30 bucks a day. He knows I hoard my

money like he does. I don't spend money. There's no reason to spend

money. I'm still driving a 1993 Bronco that I bought with my '93

SummerSlam check. I mean, that's just me. I don't give a f---. I'm not

out for anything in life. If I get out of a car and you judge me by

what I drive or what I wear, I don't want to be your friend anyway.

I'm a real simple guy. I'm a cut off sweat pants, tank top, sweat

pants guy.

[Guest jm29195]

Still a really good interview- Nash is coming off very well here, especially the part with the cookie monster....

[MillenniumMan831 0]

Nice interview thus far. Big thanks Joe and Haas for posting.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

This has been an entertaining interview thus far.

[Guest jm29195]

Did anyone get the next part, I'd be really grateful to see it!

[Guest Hass of Pain]

Torch Talk with Kevin Nash, pt. 4

Originally Published: April 30, 2005

Torch Newsletter #859

 

Kevin Nash was one of the biggest names of the Monday Night War era

whose jump with Scott Hall from the WWF to WCW helped shift the

balance of power in the wrestling industry. In this, the fourth

installment of a six-hour "Torch Talk" conducted on March 24, Nash

talks about the formation of the famous Clique, his IC Title reign,

and Bret Hart. Next week, he makes a case for why Bret Hart is better

than Shawn Michaels, and why Shawn Michaels is better than Bret Hart,

plus discusses the Bret-Shawn rivalry that led to the 1997 Survivor

Series Swerve.

 

As this "Torch Talk" further progresses, he marches through in great

detail his entire career including his jump to WCW, the success of the

NWO, the downfall of WCW, his role in that downfall, the drug culture

that permeated WCW during its peak years, his ill-fated return to WWE,

his philosophy on pro wrestling, his thoughts on the Bret Hart

Survivor Series Swerve, and much more.

 

Wade Keller: You immediately befriended Shawn Michaels when you got to

the WWF. When did you then get close to Sean Waltman and Scott Hall?

Also, were there any other people who you hung out with for a while,

but didn't stick and become part of your group of friends, later

dubbed The Clique?

 

Kevin Nash: Scott and I actually hooked up in WCW. It was one of

those, like, big guy things, you know. They booked me and Scott to tag

together against guys like Big Josh and someone else. Josh dropped us

both on our heads on the belly-to-back suplex. We rolled out of the

ring and said, "Screw this," and just walked to the back (laughs). It

was really funny. The first time me and Scott travelled together, we

went to Macon. He said, "Let's get some beer." So we're driving, we're

talking and sh--. I'm thinking he's a cool dude. He was messing with

the radio knob, and then as he was screwing with the stereo, he kind

of brushed his hand on my leg. I thought that was kind of weird. Then

he did it a second time, but a little bit longer. I thought, oh, f---,

this dude's a f--. I slowed the card down and told him, "If you touch

me again, I'm going to knock you out." He laughed and said, "I was

just f--ing with you." And that was like our introduction to each

other. If you know Scotty, he's a rib guy. He was just ribbing with

me. He was just seeing how long it would go. About 40 seconds into it,

I was ready to fight. I said this isn't going to work. He said, "No,

we're cool, we're cool."

 

So Scott and I were friends before we left (WCW). When he went up

there, when I first saw the Razor Ramon character get over, I was so

proud of him. We talked a little bit. Then when I came up there, he

welcomed me to the show. He and Sean (Waltman) were travelling

together. Then shortly after that, they started working together. The

three of us basically travelled together with the towels over our

heads as we left the buildings. That was such a period for us that was

like a blank canvas and three artists. I basically went out every

night and had the best position in the world. I had Shawn Michaels

versus Scott Hall and I was on the apron. The thing was, Shawn said

instead of doing like every other bodyguard does, when you do

something, it changes the course of the match. So we did a lot of

spots where Scott would roll out, and I'd stalk him, and Earl (Hebner)

would slide through and stop me. So we put the ref over. Then that one

time when I finally got to Scott who was behind the ref's back, the

heat was immense and their psychology was precise and they knew it -

but as time went on, Shawn realized, f---, he's getting all of the

heat. Night in, night out, Kev gets the heat. He was fine with it

because he got it residually. Fans would spit hawkers on us. Shawn

realized we were starting to create money heat. We worked, the three

of us, in some form or fashion for basically the whole course of the

time we were there. When we travelled, it was like we'd listen to

music and drink beers. You couldn't smoke pot or anything back then

because of the drug policy. So you could drink booze and take pills,

that's all you could do. But we would talk f---in' business from the

minute we got up in the morning to the gym to the tanning bed to the

building and after the building at Denny's. We were talking business,

highspots, and finishes. We were refining our craft 24 hours a day.

There was a love for the business. My wife would be livid because I'd

be on the road for 21 days and come home and talk highspots for three

days on the phone with these guys. "F---ing uncle, man, you've got to

be kidding me," she'd say. But when this business grinds into your

bones like that and you fall in love with it, it becomes your

mistress. People ask me, Who's your mistress. I say this business is

my mistress. The funny thing is just as I don't think I love it

anymore, then I have this match with Jeff Jarrett. Even though it's

1,500 people, at those precise moments that we want the people to do

something, and they do it, you realize it's not about anything but the

fact that you can still pull people's chain when you want to pull

people's chain. It's the psychology. That's the beauty of this

business. I can make your forget it was fake for 30 seconds. That's

the beauty of what we do. It's Copperfield making the Statue of

Liberty disappear.

 

Keller: What stood out when you first got to the WWF that made it

different from WCW?

 

Nash: The thing was, it was a wrestling company. It was a company that

all they did was wrestling. It was the Yankees. That's exactly what it

was. You were in a pro wrestling company. They knew how to market it,

how to shoot it. how to book it, everything. Vince used to have - we

used to call it the pencil - a book that was textured like an NFL

football and he'd open the book and it was like the Holy Grail. This

is like June '93 and Vince was like (imitating Vince): "Well,

SummerSlam '96..." (laughs). Back in the day, it was a different deal.

It was such longterm planning because at that time there were four

pay-per-views. My first year was when the first year King of the Ring

was added to make it five.

 

Keller: And a big main event on TV at the time was Duke Droese vs.

Phineous Godwin.

 

Nash: If you had Bret Hart working a title match on TV, it was once

every eight months. It was a jobber match. All the Superstar and

Challenge matches (on syndicated TV) were squashes against guys who

couldn't work and you'd just beat the dog f--- out of 'em. Everything

in the business was so different. And it was an hour. I remember when

I was writing television for WCW, we had three hours of Nitro and two

hours of Thunder. Next week's Thunder was taped on the same day as

this week's Thunder was. So you had to write a Monday Nitro for three

hours, you had to write four hours of Thunder, but you had write the

Monday night show because it had to fit in between the two Thunders to

make it work. So you had to basically write ten hours of TV in three

days.

 

Keller: I think that's the number one reason things fell apart now

matter who had control of the booking.

 

Nash: Thunder killed it. Thunder was the sh--s and when they went to

three hours on Monday, it was the sh--s.

 

Keller: It just spread everything too thin. If everything was great

and there were no problems and every character stayed hot and a brand

new star came along every six months, you might have been able to keep

up five hours, but five hours never worked and burned everyone out.

 

Nash: Immediately it diminished the product. But it's one of those

deals (TBS) threw whatever it was, 40 million dollars at Eric

(Bischoff) budget-wise and it was hard to say no. He said, "F--- it, I

can sign more guys." We were friends with Eric, so once we found out

more money was coming, we asked for raises. He said, "Well, I guess

you can."

 

Keller: That's where Vince (McMahon) is smart with the brand split

while doing two weekly two-hour shows.

 

Nash: Absolutely.

 

Keller: When you won the IC Title for the first time, was that the

peak of your career at that point? Did that mean a lot to you?

 

Nash: God, it was Rochester, New York or Syracuse. They're both the

same type of town in my brain. We did the limo drive out. There was a

strip joint. It was Rochester. The sign used to say, "25 Good Looking

Girls and 2 Ugly Ones and Warm Beer." That was the strip joint on the

right hand side by the Super 8 where we were staying at. We stopped

and had a couple of beers at the strip joint and went to the room.

This was back when the belt went in your bag. You took the belt with

you. I went back to my room and I was going to air my gear out like

you do every night. I took my knee braces and knee pads and everything

else out. My belt was at the bottom. I took the belt out. And I

remember sitting on the bed at the sh--y hotel by myself and just

looking at this belt and thinking, f--- man, I'm the WWF

Intercontinental Champion. I've made it. If I get hit by a bullet,

bolt of lightning, anything happens to me, as far as this business is

concerned, when I got into it, this is more than I thought I would

ever accomplish.

 

Keller: And to win it and lose it from Scott made it special, too.

 

Nash: Absolutely. And the thing was, we went in. I remember the day we

laid the match out. Vince asked, "What do you guys got?" We went

through that match nine-hundred times. Vince looked at us and smiled.

I remember one time when we were somewhere up in Canada and Vince came

in and said, "A lot of guys are saying if this Clique continues to go

on, they're going to f---in' quit. I need to ask you guys one

question." We're like, "Yeah?" He said, "How do I get in?" We said,

"F---, you're in, you love the business." He said, "Yeah, f--- them!"

That was the whole thing. Vince knew we lived, died, breathed it. The

business is what we wanted at that point in our lives. I know the

first time I worked Madison Square Garden in '93, the house was 86,000

dollars. The last night I worked three years later against Shawn

(Michaels) in the cage in the main event, it was sold out it to with

309,000 dollars. It was the largest house we had ever had there that

was non-pay-per-view. People will say throughout my career that I

never drew a dime. You know what, f--- you. You know what, we put

asses in the seats. And you want to give it to Shawn only, fine. You

can give it to Shawn as long as he drew because some say he never

drew. But somebody drew that f---ing night. You know?

 

Keller: When did you cross paths with Bret Hart during this first WWF

run, and what was your opinion of his in-ring style compared to others

you had worked with. Did you respect him right away?

 

Nash: Bret was real different. He was real quiet. Bret had his

psychology, but the thing is, I had great matches with Bret Hart. Bret

Hart looked at things in comic book form, he looked at things in

almost a movie form, like there was a first, second, and third stage

of everything he did, then there was the finish. So if you worked

twenty minutes with him, you basically had five minute segments. The

first time I worked with him, I dropped the belt to him in Washington

D.C. at the Cap Center. When I dropped it to him that night, I didn't

give a f-- (about losing the title) because I knew the match was going

to be so good. We used a chair, which we hadn't used forever. I pushed

him off of the apron. He went through a table, which was I think the

first time anybody went through the scorer's table. Bret was really

innovative and Bret's sh-- was solid. He'd hammer you out there. His

psychology was good. There was never a night where I went out there

with Bret that I felt we even had to talk. We could look at each other

in the locker room and nod and call it in the ring. To me that's the

greatest feeling out there, to go out there with a guy who can work

without a net. When I came back off of my quad injury and I was put

against Triple H, f---, working against Paul (Levesque) every night,

ohhh! I could go out to the ring, lock up, and ask him how long are we

going tonight. There's no reason to plan it out. It makes life so

simple because the only time you have to think about wrestling is the

20 minutes you're out there in the ring.