Chris Benoit Dead - Toxicology results released

[Jingus 0]

These guys are employed as independent contractors, which means:

 

1. They can be fired at any time.

 

2. They don't receive any sort of severance package or pension.

 

3. They don't receive medical insurance or other benefits.

 

4. Their income is taxed at the highest rate.

 

 

And yet you still claim they don't want a union? Interesting theory. Keep those four points above in mind, and ask yourself, why on earth would an athlete under those conditions not want a union? I think the answer is simple: they can't form one, period. If Vince fires them, where are they gonna go? TNA? In reality, pretty few ex-WWE guys who aren't already big names get picked up there. Japan? Yeah, IF you can find a company that wants to employ you, if you can stand all the travel, if you don't get hurt. The indies? As a former indy "employee", pardon me, but I can't seem to stop laughing. Vince really does have a virtual monopoly on wrestling in this country, and nobody seems to be able to do anything about it.

[Maztinho 0]

The E declares itself "Sports Entertainment" the sport comes first, so it falls into a weird between where it's regulated by State Athletic commissions and yet it's not "legit." It's now being cursed by it's past when it was "seen" as legit, so the standards and practices are in place, and now they admit the booked angles and call themselves Entertainment, but the status quo is there.

[justcoz 0]

But the WWE isn't just an entertainment company. I don't care what the company fancies itself or what the name says, it's much more of a sport than a comedy sketch show or something like that. The stuff they put their bodies through is comparable to only Football.

 

You're right but it's not a legitimate athletic competition where performance enhancing drugs give one wrestler an advantage over another. See that's a tricky thing. We could certainly argue that steroids do give one wrestler an advantage over another in the eyes of Vince McMahon or whoever is running the show and pushing guys. What I mean is nobody in Congress will be standing up and saying, "Sir, we need to put an asterick next to Hulk Hogan's name in the WWE Hall of Fame because of his use of anabolic steroids." At the end of the day, government doesn't require that doctors test Sylvester Stallone during the filiming of Rocky Balboa, despite the fact that he's roided up and engaging in a mock fight so is it any more logical to demand that Paul Levesque be tested to play the part of Triple H?

[justcoz 0]

These guys are employed as independent contractors, which means:

 

1. They can be fired at any time.

 

2. They don't receive any sort of severance package or pension.

 

3. They don't receive medical insurance or other benefits.

 

4. Their income is taxed at the highest rate.

 

 

And yet you still claim they don't want a union? Interesting theory. Keep those four points above in mind, and ask yourself, why on earth would an athlete under those conditions not want a union? I think the answer is simple: they can't form one, period. If Vince fires them, where are they gonna go? TNA? In reality, pretty few ex-WWE guys who aren't already big names get picked up there. Japan? Yeah, IF you can find a company that wants to employ you, if you can stand all the travel, if you don't get hurt. The indies? As a former indy "employee", pardon me, but I can't seem to stop laughing. Vince really does have a virtual monopoly on wrestling in this country, and nobody seems to be able to do anything about it.

 

I don't know, I think they figure they are making six figure incomes and don't want to rock the boat. The smart ones invest for whatever unforseeable things the future may bring. I know John Cena was towing the company line on Larry King but the guys really do know what they are getting into. If top level guys like him banded together and said they weren't doing Raw and SD until they are guaranteed certain things I really don't think WWE can just fire all of them. First, there is nobody to take their spot. So Super Crazy doesn't walk out while Randy Orton does. Super Crazy isn't going to headline Raw and a PPV. Maybe Triple H could use both shows to squash jobbers for two hours but what else could they do with half of the top guys injured right now? Not to mention the shit storm when the media, specifically in wake of the Benoit stories and the "horrible working conditons" picked up the story that WWE's top money makers refused to work television until their working conditions are addressed?

 

Television stars hold up production constantly over money and working condition disputes. I don't buy into the theory that all the boys want a union but are afraid to try. I just don't think they want it bad enough to get on the same page and make it happen. I think the industry is full of a lot guys saying to themselves, "I'll make my money, ride it out, and then kick back" while going about their business.

 

[Jingus 0]

Who in the top level WOULD walk out? Cena is a company-line-guy with a possible movie career. Kane: ditto. Batista is bestest friends with HHH. Khali can't speak English and probably doesn't want to risk getting deported if Vince got his work visa axed. Orton is fucking crazy. Mark Henry has proven that he won't quit the WWE no matter what sick shit they do to him. Kennedy is Austin's new apprentice. AND they're all the ones making the most money. So who are these theoretical top guys whose interest it's in to walk out?

 

The top guys are the ones who would need to force the union past Vince. And the top guys are the ones with the least motivation to do so. It's the developmental contractors, the undercard boys, and the people who've already been fired who get screwed the hardest by Vince's system.

[Jingus 0]

At the end of the day, government doesn't require that doctors test Sylvester Stallone during the filiming of Rocky Balboa, despite the fact that he's roided up and engaging in a mock fight so is it any more logical to demand that Paul Levesque be tested to play the part of Triple H?

The argument might be logical if Stallone was on the road four days per week with no vacation doing Rocky live every single night.

[justcoz 0]

Who in the top level WOULD walk out? Cena is a company-line-guy with a possible movie career. Kane: ditto. Batista is bestest friends with HHH. Khali can't speak English and probably doesn't want to risk getting deported if Vince got his work visa axed. Orton is fucking crazy. Mark Henry has proven that he won't quit the WWE no matter what sick shit they do to him. Kennedy is Austin's new apprentice. AND they're all the ones making the most money. So who are these theoretical top guys whose interest it's in to walk out?

 

The top guys are the ones who would need to force the union past Vince. And the top guys are the ones with the least motivation to do so. It's the developmental contractors, the undercard boys, and the people who've already been fired who get screwed the hardest by Vince's system.

 

Or could it be that the talent just aren't that bothered by the conditions? You kind of just proved my point. Most of the talent are apparently content with their working conditions and have no need to start trouble. They see how people like The Rock, Chris Jericho, Trish Stratus, RVD, Lita, Lance Storm, Mick Foley to some extent, hell even Chyna, were able to milk what they could from the McTit, rough it out and move on to other things. Or they don't worry about no benefits, self employment tax, no severence pay on dismissal, etc. because they sell merchandise, have movie deals, pending agent positions, outside investments, their own 401K's, insurance, etc. Paul London, Brian Kendrick, Matt Hardy, Jimmy Wang Yang, Jamie Noble, Eugene or Teddy Hart and Harry Smith apparently want to be there. They could work less dates with TNA. Chris Benoit had a chance to work less dates in TNA. Even the slightest named star could make a pretty decent penny on indie and international dates.

 

Yes, Vince has a monopoly on the business but nobody challenges him in any aspect. The talent are the 'names'. Their names push PPV's and draw ratings. If things are so awful they have every bit of leverage to challenge the system. TNA could prove they are different and have a union with pensions, medical benefits, etc. - instead they are actually worst than WWE by not paying for surgeries, not monitoring drug use, etc.

 

 

[justcoz 0]

At the end of the day, government doesn't require that doctors test Sylvester Stallone during the filiming of Rocky Balboa, despite the fact that he's roided up and engaging in a mock fight so is it any more logical to demand that Paul Levesque be tested to play the part of Triple H?

The argument might be logical if Stallone was on the road four days per week with no vacation doing Rocky live every single night.

 

Okay then... so compare it to Broadway performers, dancers, exotic dancers, sex workers, stand up comics, circus performers, ice capades and rock bands instead of Rocky Balboa.

 

EDIT: I guess none of the above are mock fighting but whatever

[Jingus 0]

Exactly. There's nothing like professional wrestling. No other entertainment or athletic job in the world compares to its bizarre mix of grueling schedule and dangerous physicality. They're on the road every week, never get breaks unless they're already broken, are constantly injured and in pain, and on top of all THAT have an asshole with a size fetish as their boss who practically requires them to take drugs if they want to make the big money. Not to mention how relatively small an industry it is, you've got thousands of wrestlers across the world vying for just about a hundred spots that actually pay a living wage. And yet they have no protection whatsoever under the law; they have no union, no benefits, no insurance, no pension. All in a career that can end at any time.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I was just wondering, is this a correct list of guys fired due to the wellness violations?

 

Test

Dupree

I know I'm missing a few others

 

Also, does anyone know who is on strike 2?

I believe Orton was, but that's it?

 

Kurt Angle. I think Orton was more disciplinary for behavior although I may be wrong. There was also that time when they suspended guys like Super Crazy and Lashley because of the hepatitis scare. Let's not forget that the Wellness Policy was really only active for like 18 months and the first tests were just base tests if I'm not mistaken.

 

Prior to the Wellness Program guys like William Regal, Sean Waltman, Shawn Michaels, Eddie Guerrero, Eugene, Jeff Hardy, Jamie Noble and I believe Brian Christopher at one point were suspended due to worsening drug problems.

Noble was fired because he filed an insurance claim (IIRC for an infected steroid injection site) and specifically listed steroids as the cause on the form, not because of a worsening drug problem.

[dubq 0]

Didn't see this on the last three pages so I figured I'd post it. From Gerweck:

 

In a somewhat unexpected move, Kurt Angle defended his previous employer - WWE - when he was asked about the Chris Benoit double murder-suicide story. Speaking to the Tri Valley Herald newspaper, Angle said that WWE did not kill Chris' family. "Chris decided to do that on his own," he said, noting that he loved Benoit and what he stood for before committing the murders. "I decided to become addicted to pain killers on my own. WWE didn't do it, I did it. I took responsibility for what I went through. We're all independent contractors and we all take responsibility for our own actions," the former WWE champion said. (thanks to Colin Vassallo)

[Dangerous A 0]

Kurt's gotta keep the options open. You know, repair that bridge you burned down.

 

 

[StrapFinlay 0]

Hulk Hogan in today's Sun...

 

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003560...7351002,00.html

 

WRESTLING legend Hulk Hogan has lashed out at the industry which made him a megastar.

 

And he has demanded an end to the decades-long cover-up of steroid abuse in the sport.

 

Hogan, 54, took the muscle-enhancing drugs almost daily for 16 years during his career and says he can spot a user a mile off.

 

With more than 100 grapplers dying before the age of 50 in the last decade, he is begging others to face up to the crisis.

 

The Sun has been leading an anti-steroid abuse campaign since wrestler Chris Benoit murdered his wife and seven-year-old son before committing suicide in June.

 

A handful of former stars have already spoken out and prompted US politicians to start investigating the industry.

 

But many in the WWE, the world's biggest fight franchise, deny there is a problem and have blasted their ex-colleagues as bitter failures who haven't wrestled in years.

 

They cannot same the same about Hogan, wrestling's equivalent of Pele or Muhammad Ali who was fighting for them just 12 months ago.

 

In an exclusive Sun interview, he said: "Are steroids a problem in wrestling? Oh God yeah. They have always been a part of the business. It's prevalent.

 

"But there's not some big mystery to it. Just open your eyes and it's there. You can look at a wrestler and pretty much tell.

 

"They will be above their weight range, with these big veins. My body weight is around 285lb, depending on how much junk I eat. Even if I was 25 and clean, I could probably only carry 300lb.

 

"Yet when I was wrestling I weighed anywhere between 320 and 340lb, because my body was full of water weight.

 

"My face was puffy, my arms were so bulky I couldn't touch my shoulders. You could take one look at me and know I was on something.

 

"Steroids have been around for ever in other sports too, but if we have to pick on somebody now then let's pick on wrestling.

 

"I'm glad the business is in the spotlight because they're probably the only ones smart enough, after being able to dodge it for so long, to know how to fix it."

 

The Hulkster added: "I remember up until the early 1990s any wrestler could walk into a doctor and they'd write you a prescription for steroids.

 

"Then there was a huge trial where WWE boss Vince McMahon was unfairly accused and rightly acquitted of distributing the drugs to his workers.

 

"This ushered in the era of wrestlers playing 'hide and seek'.

 

"If they can get away with things then they will. But now I think we're at the 11th hour.

 

"We can't have hide and seek being played any more.

 

"The WWE say they are drug testing, but if they are then it's not good enough. Because these guys have to stop dying."

 

Despite going on TV at the time to deny it, Hogan has since confessed he regularly used steroids between 1975 and 1991.

 

In that period he helped turn the WWE, then known as the WWF, from a New York-based wrestling group into a global entertainment brand.

 

In 1984 he won their world heavyweight championship, holding it on and off for the best part of the next seven years and starring in the main event at six of their first seven WrestleMania extravaganzas.

 

But behind his superhero mystique lay a dirty secret.

 

In his 2003 autobiography Hogan admitted: "I would tell kids to train, say their prayers and take their vitamins. But it wasn't just vitamins I was taking.

 

"But at that time every wrestler I knew was on steroids. They were part of my generation. I'm not making excuses but they were everywhere. And a lot of that had to do with what we knew about them, which obviously wasn't enough.

 

"The most commonly prescribed were testosterone, Deca-Durabolin and Dianabol. I never had a question about whether I would take them.

 

"It was part of my daily regimen. Did you take a shower? Yeah. Did you brush your teeth? Yeah. Did you take your steroids? Yeah.

 

"That was the deal. It was how I lived."

 

Alongside steroids, experts also blame painkillers and recreational drug abuse for the high number of deaths among young wrestlers.

 

Again it is something Hogan witnessed and he is pleased to say the industry has made progress on the latter.

 

He said: "There's definitely much less of a party scene and cocaine use today.

 

"When I went back to the WWE, I'd go down to the Marriott bar after the show - and all you would see is Ric Flair there with a Jack Daniels and Hulk Hogan drinking a beer.

 

"In the old days EVERY wrestler would be in the bar and then they'd go out and stay out all night.

 

"But now they are all upstairs on their computers.

 

"Maybe they're not playing games up there, but it certainly seems a lot better.

 

"As for painkillers, like steroids, they have always been around. I was naïve when I first entered wrestling and didn't even know what they were.

 

"But there was a point later on where I got hurt and found out… pretty quickly!

 

"I used them but not to the point of abusing and to the levels of the horror stories I've heard.

 

"I always knew my limitations and had regular blood tests and physicals.

 

"During the years when I would hear of these massive doses of pills some guys would take, I remember thinking they would laugh at me if they knew what I was involved in. I would be a big joke."

 

Hogan is currently in talks to start his own promotion, in which the focus will be firmly taken off those with superhuman physiques.

 

He said: "I don't know what the other federations can do, but I do know what I can do and it's all part of my plan for a new wrestling idea.

 

"It came from another person and when they told it to me it was the smartest thing I'd ever heard.

 

"I have been speaking to people from the American television networks and other important people in LA. In the first two weeks they raised $40million (£20million). I need about $80-100million to start it up.

 

"If me and my partners pull it off then the wrestlers will have a more natural look and an easier schedule - all of the things people are saying the business needs.

 

"And then Vince McMahon and everyone else in the business will have to follow suit."

 

Hogan is fully aware that his stance opens him up to charges of hypocrisy.

 

Critics argue he was the "poster boy" for steroids throughout much of his career and other wrestlers emulated him to get the same "main event" physique.

 

So isn't Hulk Hogan's plea to get steroids out of wrestling like George Bush calling for troops to leave Iraq?

 

The Hulkster replies: "I'm not trying to repent but I am being honest about my failings. I want youngsters to be educated.

 

"If I was 25 right now, coming into this business, I don't know what I'd be like in that locker room.

 

"But I know one thing. Wrestling needs to make sure everything is above board.

 

"So is it hypocritical of me? Yes.

 

"But is it hypocritical of me now in 2007? No. I think it's more like poetic justice.

 

"I've learned from being around, surviving and watching the many mistakes I and others made.

 

"I thank God I'm still alive!"

[Guest kettley]

3. 2.56% of SNL performers died from drugs or suicide. Someone else dig up the Wrestlemania percentage, I can't it's a hell of a lot higher.

I already posted this a while back but since it kind of compares percentages I thought I'd post it again.

 

In the Observer dated July 19th Meltzer put together a "deathlist" of guys who died in the last ten years, worked for a "Major League Company" and passed away before their 50th birthday.

 

32 of the wrestlers worked for the WWE/WWF at some point throuought their career.

34 of them worked for WCW.

18 of them worked for ECW.

6 worked for TNA.

 

37 people on the list were known steroid users and there were also 37 people on the list known to have significant issues with either painkillers or recreational drugs.

 

If deaths in NFL or MLB happened as frequently as they do in wrestling Meltzer estumates there would have been 435 deaths in NFL and 186 in MLB in the same time period.

 

More than 50% of the deaths are due to drug related heart attacks or overdoses (either steroids or painkillers or a combination of both). 8% were suicides (some of which were likley to be drug related). 13% were heart attacks that were not necessarily drug related (though some may have been) and only 3 of the 62 deaths were caused by cancer.

[Guest lo0p]

theres a reason why val freakin venis still has a job with the wwe .. .hes anti union.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Someone gotta job on a consistent basis. No one would believe the Brooklyn Brawler would have a chance versus Umaga.

[Mike wanna be 0]

Someone gotta job on a consistent basis. No one would believe the Brooklyn Brawler would have a chance versus Umaga.

Nobody thought Horowitz had a chance against Skip, either.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Someone gotta job on a consistent basis. No one would believe the Brooklyn Brawler would have a chance versus Umaga.

Nobody thought Horowitz had a chance against Skip, either.

I did. They started talking up Horowitz's long losing streak two weeks in advance in preparation. I thought it was coming the previous show actually.

[Prophet of Mike Zagurski 0]

Here's a summary of the Benoit situation:

http://www.georgiawrestlinghistory.com/ben...s-wwe/home.html

[Celtic Jobber 0]

Here's an interview William Regal did about Benoit with FoxNews in Atlanta:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFmUnmAzDhM

[Boxer 0]

Don't know if this was posted yet, but Benoit has been creamated:

 

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2...397204-sun.html

[MrRant 0]

Does that mean his brain was steamed?

[Boxer 0]

So looking back, who knew two months after being draft by ECW, Benoit would be creamated.

 

I guess this news story has all but fizzled out? No more mentions on Nancy Grace?

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I guess this news story has all but fizzled out? No more mentions on Nancy Grace?

NBC Dateline are working on a piece on the Benoit case, and CNN are working on a piece about wrestling in general but using the Benoit story to open with. The Benoit story itself is slowly fading away, but the fallout is going to be around for a very long time.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Well at least the smart marks can rejoice that for once, Benoit didn't get buried.

[Matt Young 0]

Well at least the smart marks can rejoice that for once, Benoit didn't get buried.

 

LMAO! UTSU wins the thread.

[Corey_Lazarus 0]

I just laughed my ass off at that. I'm at work, so my co-worker just looked at me awkwardly. Then again, I think he's one o' them queers, so hey.

 

In fact, you could say that Benoit was garnering some SERIOUS HEAT.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

In fact, you could say that Benoit was garnering some SERIOUS HEAT.

 

BURN!

[Atticus Chaos 0]

In the latest WON, Dave mentions how the reason William Regal's segment of the Benoit tribute was so odd was that seconds before he sat down to tape it, JBL asked him if he thought Benoit had anything to do with killing the boy.

 

That alone seems to reveal that A. it wasn't the big shock "we never saw this coming" WWE wants to spin it as (which isn't exactly news, but it seems to indicate that people outside of Chris's WCW associates thought something was possible) and B. when you watch Regal's comments you're basically seeing someone mentally putting 2 and 2 together while trying to say nice things for a tribute show. Certainly explained his increasing "oh shit" face throughout.

 

Regal and Benoit hadn't been close for some time, due to issues related to Benoit's divorce. Benoit was pretty weird to Regal, to boot, once asking him to come over and watch some AJPW, then refusing to let him in when he showed up. Anyway, Regal and Benoit's relationship was pretty much purely professional by that point and Regal was set to go on the air and talk about Benoit in general terms anyway when JBL stopped him in the hall and asked Regal if he thought Benoit had anything to do with what happened.

[bob_barron 0]

Regal's wife was good friends with Benoit's first wife and never liked Woman