WWE General Discussion - November 2007

[muzz 0]

I'm sure a lot of smarks think HBK an HHH meet every night, figuring out ways to bury Punk.

 

I hate how spurious information becomes accepted and blown out of proportion.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

FULL DETAILS ON THE BACKSTAGE INCIDENT THAT TURNED PHYSICAL INVOLVING JBL AND JOHN MORRISON AT LAST NIGHT'S SMACKDOWN TAPINGS

by Mike Johnson

 

As I broke exclusively this morning on the PWInsider.com Elite Hotline, there was an incident last night at the Smackdown/ECW taping in Wichita, Kansas stemming from the performances of The Miz and John Morrison on ECW on Sci Fi last night and this Friday's Smackdown.

 

According to numerous sources, JBL gathered several wrestlers together after the taping ended including Morrison, The Miz, MVP, CM Punk, and Matt Hardy. JBL berated Miz and Morrison for their commentary work on ECW, feeling that their back and forth on the show overshadowed the Punk vs. Jamie Noble match and made Punk look bad going into the Survivor Series PPV. He also ran down the pair for their work during a match against Hardy and MVP that will air this Friday on the CW Network.

 

As it was explained to me, JBL was basically standing up for the performers he felt had gone out of their way to make Miz and Morrison look good, only for the duo to not hold up their end by doing the same and making everyone involved look poor going into the PPV.

 

JBL told the two that they needed to apologize to Punk, Hardy and MVP for making them look bad. While Miz was apologetic, Morrison was said to have been angered by JBL's actions, telling the former WWE champion that it wasn't his business to tell Morrison what he was to do. Morrison said that he would apologize but JBL's input had nothing to do with it, cursed at JBL and at one point, physically shoved him away. The shove led to the two going back and forth briefly with John Laurinaitis and other WWE staff separating the two before it could go beyond the shove physically.

[justcoz 0]

At what point were there "known" grudges against Punk? Is it because 20 year vets happened to critique the indy style he worked and offered advice on how to improve? Or was it because they didn't push him as the star of the company from the moment he walked through the door and instead waited a year to put him on top of one of their brands? The whole notion of HHH and HBK being jealous of Punk or out to get him is a fabrication of internet fans with too much time on their hands.

 

I'm sure a lot of smarks think HBK an HHH meet every night, figuring out ways to bury Punk.

 

I hate how spurious information becomes accepted and blown out of proportion.

 

And my comment was blown out of proportion. Various sources, ranging from Meltzer to Keller to the PWinsider guys, reported that Stephanie had derogatory comments about Punk being the King of Indies and was in no hurry to call him up to the main roster from OVW. He didn't get his chance until Heyman was put in a position of power. This was around the same time that she was high on Daniel Rodimer being the future of WWE. HBK and HHH did report back unfavorably of Punk in OVW. I read that too. Within the past year we had the Arn Anderson stuff and reports that some agents didn't see anything special in Punk and felt the only reason he was over was because Heyman protected him in the original ECW booking.

 

I'm not even that much of a CM Punk fan so I'm not some smark sitting around thinking HHH and HBK are out to get Punk. I never even insinuated that. I just thought it would be funny to read that they are high on him. I wouldn't have thought JBL would ever call a meeting complaining about people not protecting Punk.

 

If I'm reading too much into what I've read from legitimate wrestling insiders - I apologize. I forgot that in smark land you only believe information that you want to believe and everything else is just a bunch of pimply faced geeks on the net making stuff up.

[Atticus Chaos 0]

So much for JBL's tough guy reputation...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZhM7nzLU8

[garfieldsnose 0]

Cena's Torn Pec, part of the quote from PWI got cut off. It ends with John Laurina.

[Diamonddust 0]

So much for JBL's tough guy reputation...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeZhM7nzLU8

 

I remember that show...

 

Right before Summerslam...

 

Shawn Michaels came out to open the show, and it was the first time he had been seen since Wrestlemania that year. I also remember him making a crack about Bret Hart on the show as well.

 

But as for Brawl for All, I'll never forget the DESTRUCTION Butterbean put on Bart Gunn at WM15.

[muzz 0]

At what point were there "known" grudges against Punk? Is it because 20 year vets happened to critique the indy style he worked and offered advice on how to improve? Or was it because they didn't push him as the star of the company from the moment he walked through the door and instead waited a year to put him on top of one of their brands? The whole notion of HHH and HBK being jealous of Punk or out to get him is a fabrication of internet fans with too much time on their hands.

 

I'm sure a lot of smarks think HBK an HHH meet every night, figuring out ways to bury Punk.

 

I hate how spurious information becomes accepted and blown out of proportion.

 

And my comment was blown out of proportion. Various sources, ranging from Meltzer to Keller to the PWinsider guys, reported that Stephanie had derogatory comments about Punk being the King of Indies and was in no hurry to call him up to the main roster from OVW. He didn't get his chance until Heyman was put in a position of power. This was around the same time that she was high on Daniel Rodimer being the future of WWE. HBK and HHH did report back unfavorably of Punk in OVW. I read that too. Within the past year we had the Arn Anderson stuff and reports that some agents didn't see anything special in Punk and felt the only reason he was over was because Heyman protected him in the original ECW booking.

 

I'm not even that much of a CM Punk fan so I'm not some smark sitting around thinking HHH and HBK are out to get Punk. I never even insinuated that. I just thought it would be funny to read that they are high on him. I wouldn't have thought JBL would ever call a meeting complaining about people not protecting Punk.

 

If I'm reading too much into what I've read from legitimate wrestling insiders - I apologize. I forgot that in smark land you only believe information that you want to believe and everything else is just a bunch of pimply faced geeks on the net making stuff up.

 

My comment was more to do with facts being twisted each time by the average poster that the truth is lost sometimes, if it was true to begin with. I don't take everything "legitimate wrestling insiders" say as fact anyway. Not directed at anyone in particular, so don't cry.

 

 

[fisticuffs 0]

Was Brawl for All legit? I thought it looked too much like Tough Man to be worked.

[milliondollarchamp 0]

Was Brawl for All legit? I thought it looked too much like Tough Man to be worked.

 

From what i heard it was it was suppose to make Steve Williams look strong but we all how that turned out.

[Scroby 0]

Was Brawl for All legit? I thought it looked too much like Tough Man to be worked.

Brawl For All was actually shoot fighting and it fucked up a lot of things because the WWE wanted to run angles out it. Dr. Death was the guy who they wanted to win it so he could look like a legit guy for Austin to feud with, but Dr. Death got ko'ed and the idea got scraped.

[Wally Balls 0]

As far as Punk goes, from all accounts, the guy is a total dickwad in real life. I won't feel bad for him if he's getting shit talked for being an ass.

 

 

I also hear that Punk thinks way too much of himself. Settle down Punk. You're not Rock. You're not Austin. You're not Hogan. You're not Cena....Fuck, You're not even Jeff Hardy. You're no more than an indy darling who has a title equal to the European championship on a show drawing 1.1 ratings.

 

 

In a nutshell...

 

 

I really don't like CM Punk. I don't care if he's a good performer, if he's an asshole outside of the ring, I can't respect that.

[Mecca 0]

For a guy who's suppose to be tough getting punked by John Morrison is probably tough to swallow.

 

Knowing JBL, that is probably worded a lot nicer than how it went down, guy is a bully plain and simple. Good for Morrison for standing up for himself and telling the guy to fuck off.

 

Also..JBL saying anything about bad commentary or anyone getting buried is hilarious. You can tell right away who he doesn't like when he announces, I bet guys like Miz and Chris Masters thought JBL was doing a hell of a job to get them over.

 

In short who the fuck is JBL to tell Morrison shit, Morrison has more talent than JBL ever dreamed of having. This is a guy who'd have been a curtain jerker for life if he wasn't one of Vince's little buds. Guy is treated like he's Steve Austin when everyone I know hated his title run..and think's he's a bum.

[cabbageboy 0]

Yeah there is a certain amount of pot calling the kettle black with JBL and Morrison. Thing is, who thought it was a GOOD idea to put Morrison and The Miz out on commentary anyway? Was there no thought that this just might suck? I didn't even think they really said that much that was untrue. Morrison played up that Miz screwed him out of the match with Punk and Miz acted like an asshole. Did they expect something different?

 

Considering Morrison has beaten Punk about 20 times compared to Punk's 2 times there's no reason why he'd put him over to such a degree, especially considering Punk's screwy win last week via The Miz.

[Mecca 0]

I thought the commentary was funny, he called himself Kung Fu Jesus and asked Miz if he got a can of soup with his hat...

 

Some people need to lighten up and grow a sense of humor.

[The Buzz 0]

I don't understand one thing though, how is being shoved away is being punked out when they were seperated by agents before it could grow into something else? Being punked is when you are physically or verbally put in your place and you do nothing about it.

 

 

This sounds like the typical story of a veteran trying to teach younger wrestlers a lesson, and one of the prima donna younger wrestlers catches an attitude about it. You always hear about it in the shoot interviews that a lot of the younger guys think they know more than the older guys do when it comes to offering advice, and then when they aren't getting over suddenly start asking for help.

[The Truthiness 0]

For a guy who's suppose to be tough getting punked by John Morrison is probably tough to swallow.

Knowing JBL, that is probably worded a lot nicer than how it went down, guy is a bully plain and simple. Good for Morrison for standing up for himself and telling the guy to fuck off.

 

Also..JBL saying anything about bad commentary or anyone getting buried is hilarious. You can tell right away who he doesn't like when he announces, I bet guys like Miz and Chris Masters thought JBL was doing a hell of a job to get them over.

 

In short who the fuck is JBL to tell Morrison shit, Morrison has more talent than JBL ever dreamed of having. This is a guy who'd have been a curtain jerker for

 

life if he wasn't one of Vince's little buds. Guy is treated like he's Steve Austin when everyone I know hated his title run..and think's he's a bum.

 

He got pushed, not "punked".

 

He put them both over, when thy both got better in the ring.

 

One of the most respected guys in the locker room, and what he said was right. They were indeed, fucking up the match with there little cat fight, and should've apologized to Punk (and Noble). Morrison was also exposed by Miz, meaning Miz was way wittier the Morrison, and sounded more comfortable on the mic, and made Morrison reduce to mom jokes. Yeah , Morrison's "Kung Fu" line was funny, but he stilled looked like a idiot.

 

Same can be said about Lagana and Morrison, atleast JBL's got his gimmick over and didn't have to force it, unlike Morrison.

 

Morrison is in no way more talented then Bradshaw.

[Mecca 0]

He's more athletically talented.....

 

Generally I give guys the benefit of the doubt but it's well documented that Bradshaw is nothing more than a locker room bully.

 

I remember making jokes that he should wear a shirt "Bradshaw 3:16" and the back says "I just raped your ass"

[Hawk 34 0]

People need to cease this ridiculous notion that JBL buried and tried to ruin Chris Masters' career. Masters was a lost cause from the start and the inability to do anything other then inject himself wasn't going to get him anywhere that he wasn't already at before Masters became a Smackdown regular and became subject to this so-called burial process. If anything, JBL was doing Masters a favor by going along with the act that Masters portrayed (that of a dolt bodybuilder with no actual wrestling skills). Chris Masters, with the exception of a cup of coffee in the main event platform that obviously amounted to nothing, was never anything more then a time filling cheap heat act.

 

In addition, JBL's "burying" of Miz over the last year has been completely justified as Miz wasn't presented as anything other then an annoying shit-heel that had no redeemable value, even for another heel such as JBL. Was JBL harsh at times? That's possible but it never hurt The Miz by any stretch of the imagination. JBL ripped CM Punk a year ago when he was breaking into WWE, calling him out on his inexperience, his lifestyle and basically treated him as a non-entity. Now, JBL puts over Punk because he is the champion and proved himself over the year. That's called being a good commentator (as well as following the company line). As a heel, JBL has even gone to great lengths to put over faces and the low card acts, when warranted.

 

JBL did nothing wrong here but if some people want to maintain a staunch position that JBL was acting with the wrong intents, don't do it because you disliked his wrestling career. There is a time for applause when someone takes a stand, this wasn't a stand. It was a selfish and childish act by John Morrison to refuse to apologize and especially to shove someone without any provocation.

[death_by_burrito 0]

Didn't the report say that Morrison did apologize (or said he would apologize), but felt that JBL was out of line by calling him and Miz out?

 

I like JBL on commentary and liked when he got himself over as champ, and I like Morrison cause his character has gotten a bit better lately, so i'm not gonna take sides on who was right and wrong. To me, it's just an interesting story, and I'd like to see how this plays out for Morrison. Hopefully he doesnt get depushed cause ECW has been really good lately and it'd be cool for him to stay near the top.

[Mecca 0]

He apologized he was pissed that to him JBL has no place to do that and should mind his own business.

[AntiLeaf33 0]

I love how older guys rag on the younger guys for not doing things the way they used to be? How is the buisness supposed to evolve and grow if you make everyone do the same thing. As much as I love JBL, I think he is in the wrong here.

[garfieldsnose 0]

Wrestling always will be about putting over someone. Morrison and Miz failed to do that, when the timing was important to do that. It's the last ECW show going into the PPV, you need to make all parties look good. Morrison and Miz didn't do their part, plain and simple.

[JPopStarKami 0]

As far as Punk goes, from all accounts, the guy is a total dickwad in real life. I won't feel bad for him if he's getting shit talked for being an ass.

 

 

I also hear that Punk thinks way too much of himself. Settle down Punk. You're not Rock. You're not Austin. You're not Hogan. You're not Cena....Fuck, You're not even Jeff Hardy. You're no more than an indy darling who has a title equal to the European championship on a show drawing 1.1 ratings.

 

 

In a nutshell...

 

 

I really don't like CM Punk. I don't care if he's a good performer, if he's an asshole outside of the ring, I can't respect that.

 

What 'accounts' are you talking about?

[haVoc 0]

In addition, JBL's "burying" of Miz over the last year has been completely justified as Miz wasn't presented as anything other then an annoying shit-heel that had no redeemable value, even for another heel such as JBL. Was JBL harsh at times? That's possible but it never hurt The Miz by any stretch of the imagination. JBL ripped CM Punk a year ago when he was breaking into WWE, calling him out on his inexperience, his lifestyle and basically treated him as a non-entity. Now, JBL puts over Punk because he is the champion and proved himself over the year. That's called being a good commentator (as well as following the company line). As a heel, JBL has even gone to great lengths to put over faces and the low card acts, when warranted.

 

That's a good point about JBL waiting for guys to prove themselves instead of squealing like a pig about how great they are. Most announcers sound forced and phony and you usually don't get that with JBL.

 

Also, JBL ripped Matt Hardy for a long time after he returned from getting himself fired and that Undertaker incident. As much as he ripped into Matt he also said if Matt could pull his head out of his ass he could be great and I don;t watch SD every week but I haven't heard him treat Matt Hardy like that in a while.

 

[justcoz 0]

Wrestling always will be about putting over someone. Morrison and Miz failed to do that, when the timing was important to do that. It's the last ECW show going into the PPV, you need to make all parties look good. Morrison and Miz didn't do their part, plain and simple.

 

I agree but at the same time what did WWE expect by putting them out there and if you can have producers in the headsets of freakin Jim Ross and Joey Styles, why not these guys? I'm just saying that it was obvious that they wanted them to duel with each other on commentary or else just one of them would have been out there. And no offense to Noble/Punk because the match picked up at the end but a good bit of that match was Noble with a chinlock, armbar or some other rest hold on Punk. I think they both said that CM Punk was a great champion at different points but there wasn't necessarily a lot of action for them to call at some points. In the end, I think the comapny probably learned something too from the improvisation and Miz being able to think on his feet better than Morrison. I also thought some of their bickering was funny but it's like nobody is supposed to have unscripted fun in WWE any more.

[The Truthiness 0]

In addition, JBL's "burying" of Miz over the last year has been completely justified as Miz wasn't presented as anything other then an annoying shit-heel that had no redeemable value, even for another heel such as JBL. Was JBL harsh at times? That's possible but it never hurt The Miz by any stretch of the imagination. JBL ripped CM Punk a year ago when he was breaking into WWE, calling him out on his inexperience, his lifestyle and basically treated him as a non-entity. Now, JBL puts over Punk because he is the champion and proved himself over the year. That's called being a good commentator (as well as following the company line). As a heel, JBL has even gone to great lengths to put over faces and the low card acts, when warranted.

 

That's a good point about JBL waiting for guys to prove themselves instead of squealing like a pig about how great they are. Most announcers sound forced and phony and you usually don't get that with JBL.

 

Also, JBL ripped Matt Hardy for a long time after he returned from getting himself fired and that Undertaker incident. As much as he ripped into Matt he also said if Matt could pull his head out of his ass he could be great and I don;t watch SD every week but I haven't heard him treat Matt Hardy like that in a while.

What Incident did Matt have with Taker?

 

[Enigma 0]

JBL used to shit all over MVP when he started, but that tune changed quickly.

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Hey remember when people were all like "I can't believe they're wasting Benoit with an MVP feud / WrestleMania match"?

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

What Incident did Matt have with Taker?

Forget the exact circumstances, but Taker hit the ring after a match doling out chokeslams to a bunch of people. Matt decided to exit the ring w/out taking one, and apparently Taker chewed him out backstage in front of everyone for being too much of a mark for himself (I guess Taker missed the irony of his claims).

[DrVenkman PhD 0]

Hmm... was that Survivor Series 2005?