Downhome Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 I thought this was interesting, so tear it apart, comment, or whatever you want. The topic still stands though and makes sense to me. If Brock continues to evolve and get better, how good could he eventually become in your opinion? Guest Editorial By David McCullough of Merrimack, N.H. PWTorch.com Reader Brock Lesnar ended No Way Out staring at the lights, Eddie Guerrero's music, and the adulation of the San Francisco crowd ringing in his ears. Hopefully, he was smiling. Coming into No Way Out, Lesnar was carrying two feuds; the main event title defense with Eddie and a percolating rivalry with Goldberg. The main event match was a great one; from Brock's early physical dominance to Eddie's targeting of the knee to the fantastic finish, both performers were unquestionably at the top of their game. The match told a great story, delving deeply into both characters, especially Brock and the extended figure-four leglock while the crowd chanted "you tapped out!" In the end, Brock was undone by a well-done ref bump on the F5, trying to cheat-a-cheater with the title belt, Bill Goldberg, and the heart of Eddie Guerrero. Particularly outstanding was Lesnar selling the knee injury. Several of the suplexes late in the match were delivered with one leg, Lesnar selling the pain of the knee injury while also demonstrating his monstrous power. The "high-knee lift" spot, which he surprised us with early in the match became a turning point when Guerrero ducked it... the kind of storyline detail that has been missing from today's matches. The psychology of this match was pitch-perfect; both guys told a great story in that ring last night. Over the past year, Lesnar has had four or five star matches with Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. If that were all, we could probably just assume Lesnar was carried by these three outstanding workers. But Lesnar has also had outstanding matches with The Big Show, matches that have been called the best of Show's career. He has shown the ability to make his opponents look better in the ring - something all the "great ones" do. The build-up to the Wrestlemania XX match between Goldberg and Lesnar has been orchestrated perfectly. From their first encounter at Survivor Series, to Brock's run-in during the Rumble, to Goldberg's early jackhammer and late spear at No Way Out, the WWE has done a great job building the anticipation for this matchup. Besides Goldberg-Austin (which can never happen, due to SCSA's neck injury), Goldberg-Lesnar is the most marketable matchup remaining. And the WWE has done a great job in selling it to the fans. Lesnar has become that rare performer who does not need a title or a storyline push to carry the show. The list of Superstars who don't need a title or push is very short: Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels. Lesnar may not be a full-fledged member of this club yet, but he is knocking on the door. He is headed to WM20 to face the biggest star not of McMahon's making. In all likelihood, Lesnar will emerge victorious from his matchup with Goldberg... but does that make you want to see it any less? Fans (like me) will pay to see what Brock Lesnar does next...be it the shooting star press at WM19 or suplexing the Big Show and collapsing the ring. Brock has been a part of several memorable moments already...and he's still the youngest WWE champion in history. If Brock is this good NOW, how good will he be in five years? Scary thought. You are encouraged to respond to this commentary. Please indicate in the subject header the date and title of the article you are responding to. Direct your e-mails, signed with your name and city/state/country, to: "torchreax" (@pwtorch.com). Sincerely, ...Downhome...
Guest Ray Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 Over the past year, Lesnar has had four or five star matches with Kurt Angle, Chris Benoit, and Eddie Guerrero. If that were all, we could probably just assume Lesnar was carried by these three outstanding workers. Ok....aside from that silliness...Brock is already one of the best wrestlers in WWE. If he keeps learning and improving at this rate, he might be one of the top talents WWE ever produced. His performance against Eddie Guerrero may have been the best of his career. The only thing I worry about, is lack of quality opponents for Brock. With Benoit on Raw, there's just Eddie, Angle, and...?
haVoc Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 Lesnar has become that rare performer who does not need a title or a storyline push to carry the show. The list of Superstars who don't need a title or push is very short I hope that's true, because it doesn't look like he will be touching that title again anytime soon.
Downhome Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Posted February 16, 2004 I don't think Brock really needs a title to make an impact and to be noticed. As Ray said, the real problem is having enough of quality opponents for Brock. Who else is there besides Angle and Eddie that would really work well with Lesnar?
EL DANDY~! Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 Ahem. That list is forgetting Vader, who's over NO MATTER WHERE HE GOES. Of course, Vince totally tamed him, which kinda made him not so over, but this man is a big name wherever he is. No story necessary.
Brocklock Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 I don't think Brock really needs a title to make an impact and to be noticed. As Ray said, the real problem is having enough of quality opponents for Brock. Who else is there besides Angle and Eddie that would really work well with Lesnar? They are on different showsm but a Brock/Jericho match could rule.
Just call me Dan Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 Not with that bullshit finisher he uses. I can't even get into his matches anymore. Use the Sharpshooter Chris!
Guest Jimbo Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 As intriguing as this question may be, I think the more important, and perhaps more distressing as well, is WHERE he will be and WHAT will he be doing? In less than 2 years, he has been WWE Undisputed Champion multiple times, been featured in multiple major storylines-- many of which have been drastically different, and formed at least one great rivalry with Kurt Angle. In 5 years, or really, in less a year or two, he'll probably be moved to Raw-- freshening things up, but not really that much. Being at the top of in one company for only 4 years and gone through more or less everything there is to do, is not a good thing. Heck, the one thing that some people like Hogan, Goldberg, and other old greats have going for them is the opportunity for some dream matchup-- Brock will have completed his in 27 days. On one level, it impresses me, on another, it worries me.
NoCalMike Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 I dunno, I just can't get into Brock Lesnar like some can. He is decent, and can put on an entertaining match, but I still think he is just maybe a notch or two above the general "bland hoss" stigma. I just don't see what he does that is so spectacular in the ring.
Guest Corino 1000 Posted February 16, 2004 Report Posted February 16, 2004 If the push didn't work he'd probally be back in OVW or something but I really don't see how they would have failed with Brock. He's marketable and he's good in the ring.
Slickster Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 I think the only reason he got the push that he did was on the basis that he was a can't-miss prospect.
USC Wuz Robbed! Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 I think Lesnar would have gotten the Orton push (Be fed everything even if you're not over)
DCMaximo Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Agreed. They knew Brock HAD to get over, not only due to his stature and skill, but due to the sheer force of his push. They even covered his weakest point, his mic skills, by having Heyman as his agent. If he had failed, he'd currently be in the same position Sean O'Haire is, getting the odd match on Velocity and training in OVW
JJMc Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 The reason I can't get into him is because he's on Thunder..I mean Smackdown. Seriously, get rid of the fucking blue lights, canned heat, and fist set. And the commentary sounds like its been dubbed over. And is it me, or does everything on UPN have a horseshit picture? It's not nearly as crisp as TNN, which is why I think Raw has a better atmoshpere...
Jobber of the Week Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 The big risk wasn't having him go over guys. The big risk was, and always has been since, letting him talk.
Damaramu Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Well I think that even if he wasn't drawing reactions they would've pushed him until he did. They had it set in there mind they were going to push him no matter what. In 2 years Randy Orton will finally be getting a constant reaction because of the "We won't quit!" push. That's what the WWE does to those that it has in their head will be stars.
The Tino Standard Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Well I think that even if he wasn't drawing reactions they would've pushed him until he did. They had it set in there mind they were going to push him no matter what. In 2 years Randy Orton will finally be getting a constant reaction because of the "We won't quit!" push. That's what the WWE does to those that it has in their head will be stars. Shit on that philosophy all you like, but it didn't turn out too bad for the Rock.
DCMaximo Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Well I think that even if he wasn't drawing reactions they would've pushed him until he did. They had it set in there mind they were going to push him no matter what. In 2 years Randy Orton will finally be getting a constant reaction because of the "We won't quit!" push. That's what the WWE does to those that it has in their head will be stars. Shit on that philosophy all you like, but it didn't turn out too bad for the Rock. True, but that was only by accident. He only got over as a heel because the fans HATED him so much as a face. Could have been worse though...he could have turned out like Lex Luger on the "Rocky Express"
Lightning Flik Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 The reason I can't get into him is because he's on Thunder..I mean Smackdown. Seriously, get rid of the fucking blue lights, canned heat, and fist set. And the commentary sounds like its been dubbed over. And is it me, or does everything on UPN have a horseshit picture? It's not nearly as crisp as TNN, which is why I think Raw has a better atmoshpere... The reason for RAW looking better is because it still is classified as WWE's flagship (and some days, rightfully so, on others, we wince at this). Also because RAW is live and there can be no fuck ups, they have to make everything look 100% correct. Whereas on Smackdown, since it is taped, they can cut a corner here and there and still get the product out and looking worthy of attention.
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 In 2 years Randy Orton will finally be getting a constant reaction because of the "We won't quit!" push. That's what the WWE does to those that it has in their head will be stars. Not necessarily. The Rock push worked because he has insane amounts of charisma & mic skills. Brock worked (eventually) because he's got a great look and is scary strong. Both these guys had something special. Orton really isn't displaying anything special that makes him stand out, and unless he does, you can't guarantee he'll be getting good reactions on the basis of being pushed constantly.
Damaramu Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 In 2 years Randy Orton will finally be getting a constant reaction because of the "We won't quit!" push. That's what the WWE does to those that it has in their head will be stars. Not necessarily. The Rock push worked because he has insane amounts of charisma & mic skills. Brock worked (eventually) because he's got a great look and is scary strong. Both these guys had something special. Orton really isn't displaying anything special that makes him stand out, and unless he does, you can't guarantee he'll be getting good reactions on the basis of being pushed constantly. Yes but they will not quit the push from hell until he is over. That was my point.
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 In that case, it may be a loooooooong wait. If he's not over after the Foley feud, they've got problems.
Highland Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Brock as improved in leaps and bounds, and while his improvement on the mic hasn't matched it, he has gotten better on the stick. I don't wince anymore whenever I hear him cut a promo. Five years from now we'll be bitching at Brock for holding the midcard down, saying it's time for him to let them step up to the plate.
Guest Choken One Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 I have a sinking feeling that Brock will get a Ego, Try to overtake HHH and Vince, Get burned and sent the mid-card for a year...and get jobbed out. Goes to Japan and becomes the GREATEST thing to ever hit Japan. HHH continues to Headline Mania XXIV with His ARCH NEMESIS Maven.
ISportsFan Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Well, Billy Gunn got a huge, insane push over and over and over again and still never got over. Jason
Guest Salacious Crumb Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 In that case, it may be a loooooooong wait. If he's not over after the Foley feud, they've got problems. Exactly. If Orton isn't getting more than a mild reaction after facing off with Foley at Mania than he will NEVER get over.
NoCalMike Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Brock as improved in leaps and bounds, and while his improvement on the mic hasn't matched it, he has gotten better on the stick. I don't wince anymore whenever I hear him cut a promo. Five years from now we'll be bitching at Brock for holding the midcard down, saying it's time for him to let them step up to the plate. well considering he jumped right over the mid-card at the START OF HIS WWE career, I'd say it would be fair to bitch about him.
Austin3164life Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 I have a sinking feeling that Brock will get a Ego, Try to overtake HHH and Vince, Get burned and sent the mid-card for a year...and get jobbed out. Goes to Japan and becomes the GREATEST thing to ever hit Japan. HHH continues to Headline Mania XXIV with His ARCH NEMESIS Maven.
Lil' Bitch Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 Too bad he's only used the Yamada Legbreaker twice. I really like that move.
Spaceman Spiff Posted February 17, 2004 Report Posted February 17, 2004 He's used it more than that. By my count: Benoit, Rey, Orlando Jordan, and maybe Shannon Moore.
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